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mukhi

@theobromananda

joy produced by the food of the gods

Katılım Aralık 2015
519 Takip Edilen347 Takipçiler
mukhi
mukhi@theobromananda·
@TVachaW Can you really attain persistent non-dual experience without breaking delusion? Can you really break the fourth and fifth fetter without attaining PNDE through breaking the first?
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Vacha
Vacha@TVachaW·
I've noticed that there are two quite distinct ways people on here use the word "awakening", which would benefit from disambiguation. Roughly they are: 1. Persistent Non-Dual Experience (PNDE) On the Persistent Non-Dual Experience Model, awakening is defined in terms of the phenomenological structure of a person's conscious experience. A person is awakened on this model if they have a shift that causes them to permanently perceive their field of experience as centerless, without a sense of agent / doer and with no subjective sense of self. It is primarily a description of how their field of experience is subjectively organised and makes little reference to their behaviour, motivations or intentions in the world. 2. Traditional Buddhist Awakening By contrast, the Traditional Buddhist model of awakening typically involves maximally eradicating craving, aversion and delusion as motivating forces in our life. It certainly causes a change in how the person experiences the world, but it also speaks to a fundamental shift in their intentions, motivations and ways of behaving in the world. An awakened person on this model is not recognised merely by internal self-reports of non-dual experience. Rather, they are at least part recognised by how they behave in the world and what motivates them. Such a person ceases to be motivated by desire for having certain experiences (especially sense experiences) or accumulating wealth / status. Instead they become maximally motivated by awakening itself, helping others awaken, and acts of compassion and generosity. 3. The Value in Disambiguating The 2 There is currently a somewhat antagonistic relationship between advocates of these two models. The Traditional Buddhist will often dismiss the value of the Persistent Non-Dual Experience model. Whilst the advocates of the Persistent Non-Dual Experience model will say that the Traditional Buddhist model is either impossible, no different to PNDE, or something that only had relevance for some past, long-ago time. I think both of these perspectives are wrong however. I believe that shifting to a Persistent Non-Dual way of experiencing the world subjectively can have tremendous value in supporting the path towards Traditional Buddhist Awakening. Breaking through into Persistent Non-Dual Experience eradicates a tonne of suffering and provides a lot of support for transforming our motivations, intentions and behaviours in the world. Meanwhile, I think the Traditional Buddhist Awakening model still has huge relevance to people today and is not the same as simply attaining to PNDE. Many people who attain to PNDE still frequently behave in ways that demonstrate a continued self-oriented intent and self-oriented motivation in the world. This speaks to the fact that the "self" in the Buddhist sense can still be operational even when subjective experience doesn't contain a sense of center, agent, doing or subjectively felt self-sense. It also doesn't seem to automatically cause a reorientation away from being motivated by certain experiences and sense pleasures towards exclusively being motivated by awakening and compassion. Furthermore, from a whole society perspective, it is very valuable to everyone when there are beings who are minimally motivated by self-oriented goals and maximally motivated by compassion and awakening. Whereas, there is much less value to other people when there are some beings who organise their perceptual field in non-dual ways, but continue acting in self-oriented ways. So, attaining to PNDE certainly does not lack value - neither in general nor on a Buddhist path. On the contrary, it is in my view intrinsically valuable for the reductions in suffering it yields for the individual and it also provides support for Traditional Buddhist Awakening. But it should also not be equated to Traditional Buddhist awakening, and we should also not dismiss the value or existence of Traditional Buddhist Awakening. Understanding that PNDE ≠ Traditional Buddhist Awakening helps us see that there is much, much more path ahead after PNDE has been attained. It also helps ensure that the notion of spiritual awakening isn't just limited to a certain subjective way of experiencing the world but also to our intentions, motivations and behaviours in the world. The latter qualities impact a lot more people. So if we truly believe that the sense of a separate self is an illusion - and therefore we understand that other people's suffering is as important as ours - then it becomes quite easy to see why attaining to PNDE is the beginning of the path towards spiritual awakening rather than the end point itself.
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mukhi
mukhi@theobromananda·
@QiaochuYuan This would give me so much self-confidence! I was chosen for verified high value even before I was born! No need to demonstrate it further
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𝕋𝕙𝕖 𝔸𝕣𝕔𝕙𝕚𝕧𝕚𝕤𝕥
Guys, I think you’ve been doing celibacy wrong. It was supposed to make you more creative, not more angry. Voluntary celibacy can be a powerful tool if it’s part of a larger discipline, art, or craft. If all you’ve produced is rage, yeah, that’s not good.
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mukhi
mukhi@theobromananda·
@ZyMazza Why, though? So they'll recognize you as special? If you tell your loved ones about your trauma all the time, they'll tell you to see a specialist. Same with worldview-shattering experiences. Good reason "occult" things are hidden – not everyone has agreed to look beyond the veil
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Zy
Zy@ZyMazza·
@theobromananda I think youll find the first half of your reply is corroborated by my reply. The same is true of all sorts of experiences and traumas; you still need to work the next day. As for millions believing me, it's no matter. I want my friends and loved ones to believe me
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Zy
Zy@ZyMazza·
Why do most people who have had genuinely uncanny experiences prefer not to talk about them? I say "uncanny" and not "supernatural" or "spiritual" for the very reason that answers this question. Consider the best case scenario if I just saw bigfoot last night. And please! Spot me for the sake of this conversation I actually saw bigfoot! It wasn't a brown bear; I hadn't been drinking nor was I on DMT. I honest to goodness saw bigfoot last night. Bigfoots are real now. Sorry, just accept it. It's a conditional hypothetical like if you hadn't eaten breakfast this morning. Bigfoot is real and I saw one last night. So I approach a close friend and I tell them. "Last night I saw bigfoot." Let's game theory this out. What's the best case scenario here? The absolute best case scenario is that they believe me unquestioningly. From there a few things can happen. (1) We dedicate our lives to finding proof that big foot is real. Let's say we do that. Well odds are we won't be able to find any. Even though bigfoot is real, he's obviously elusive or it wouldnt be so surprising for me to say "I saw bigfoot last night." And obviously many other people have tried. And even if we do find "evidence" unless we capture a live specimen it's unlikely to rise to the level of "proof" for the general public. We'd probably be ridiculed if we did that. There'd be no real benefit to us. Certainly the upside of proving bigfoot's existence is quite high. But it's such an unlikely outcome of trying. We need to be realistic. So maybe instead (2) happens, and we both just quietly update our world models. My friend that bigfoot is real and me that my friend REALLY trusts me. That's nice but it doesn't really accomplish much. More likely is (3). My friend just doesn't believe me. I mean I saw bigfoot, but he's a friend of mine so he's not stupid; he doesn't believe in that stuff! So he tells me it was just a brown bear or whatever. And I insist it wasn't and he asks if I was drinking or on DMT etc etc. And I assure him I wasn't. But he still doesn't believe me. So that's alienating. I had a pretty intense experience, opened up to my friend about it, and he basically laughed in my face. Rough. Meanwhile my poor friend. Why am I so insistent on trying to get him to believe something that's so clearly impossible, clearly false? He's going to think I'm crazy at best. Maybe malignant at worst. Playing a prank? That might be a positive view but it only holds if I'm willing to drop it. The longer I insist I actually saw bigfoot the more frustrated he's going to get. As an aside, "bigfoot" is really just a cryptozoology thing. It's at the low-end of "uncanny" or "supernatural" experiences. It's really not even that unbelievable, facially, that you would encounter a species unknown to science. And yet we can see how rough this is quickly. The longer I maintain that I saw bigfoot last night--which again, is the truth--the higher the chance that I will alienate my friend. And indeed that my friend will alienate me! Because of course it would be saddening, frustrating even, to trust someone with a vulnerable truth (and it is a vulnerability thing! To tell someone you've seen something unbelievable) and to have that vulnerability returned with doubt and ridicule. Obviously it is! So now you have this *thing* you have to live with that you can't really share with other people. You just can't! This, by the way, is why so many supernatural horror movies are thinly veiled metaphors for trauma and various types of abuse. Because, you see, if you take the "supernatural" or the "uncanny" out of it, you're left with the circumstance where something unambiguously out-of-distribution happened to you--something that would shock normal people who have only had in-distribution experiences. You're in the shoes of a kid who was abused by a priest in the 80s. A priest? They are moral leaders. They'd never do such a thing. You're in the shoes of a woman who was assaulted by her married boss at the company holiday party in the 80s. He's married! He wouldnt even hit on her, let alone assault her. And you're looking at those examples and thinking it's a silly comparison, but it's not. You think it's silly because its in distribution now, because enough people were willing to come forward and talk about their experiences, really at no particular benefit to themselves individually, just to move the overton window to make society a little less cruel to people who experienced things like that. And it turns out that in societies where the "supernatural", both historically and contemporaneously is normalized, people report having those experiences more often! And you might say it's a shared delusion, it's an enforced social norm; in fact people feel *pressured* to make up such experiences when none happened to fit in! You might even point to metoo or other moral panics. "Yeah it's true that a lot of women have been assaulted but it got ridiculous" Or even "the whole mass grave hoax thing for the catholic Church in Canada is what happens when these kind of reports are valorized" And you would be right, of course. That is a factor. But the reverse is also a factor. You *must* acknowledge that just as I acknowledged that incentives to make up such reports can exist. Social conditions are never neutral. In a society where such reports are condemned, you *will* see less of them, regardless of the underlying frequency of such events.
Zy@ZyMazza

If you're being honest with yourself, if you ever had an unambiguously supernatural experience, you probably wouldn't want to talk about it or even think about it too much for fear it much ruin your life.

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mukhi
mukhi@theobromananda·
@richardludlow @jessicavellela From my experience there is no difference between psyche and body – e.g. vomiting out psychic detritus in bile form on plant medicines or the way that TCM somatizes psychological disorders and heals it by treating the organs. Haven't found a blockage without bodily component yet.
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Richard Ludlow
Richard Ludlow@richardludlow·
I suspect that a large proportion of chronic psychological conditions have metabolic components that are entirely untreated by talk therapy and psych meds. I initially didn’t pay much attention when @jessicavellela (my Ayurveda doc) said some of my issues with emotional regulation sounded liver-related, but then I heard the same thing from my Chinese-medicine-trained chiropractor, and later from @MarkEstefanos. My labs were clean, but an ultrasound revealed an enlarged liver (and spleen), which Jessica is now treating with Ayurvedic herbal medicines.
Carmen@carmenleelau

If you have a hammer everything looks like a nail. I wish spiritual/meditation/yoga teachers were more comfortable going “no actually this isn’t fixing your issues, fire me and eat lots of broccoli“ and send you off to do experiments beyond their field of expertise

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mukhi@theobromananda·
@allgarbled worst are people who only use indeterminate articles "we are coming" – who tf is we, friend?
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mukhi
mukhi@theobromananda·
@bridgietherease the entirety of life. there is nothing that does not adhere to this principle right in this moment, or ever meaning is holographic
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Oedipa Maas
Oedipa Maas@bridgietherease·
What's the most striking instance of synchronicity you've ever experienced?
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mukhi
mukhi@theobromananda·
@realitymap @algekalipso I believe our Captn is making a joke about enlightenment being the end of personhood.
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🕳️
🕳️@realitymap·
@algekalipso not sure I follow? the unborn is a clear achievable goal. nibbana is total cessation, the flame is blown out completely. no problems persist at all
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mukhi
mukhi@theobromananda·
@itzjuscrypto It isn't, there is the (You) tag next to the name. maniaUFO wrote the post himself, then took a screenshot.
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UFO mania
UFO mania@maniaUFO·
This post appeared today on 8chan...🧐🤔 What do you think? It could be true or complete nonsense.... Quote Scientists who worked for the government on space projects and who are missing are alive, they are in a safe place and are preparing a real revelation, not a false revelation, the informants who are in the media and claim to know the truth are government agents and their job is to misinform them public. Everyone knows who they are. Do not believe anything that the US government claims in the case of extraterrestrial entities. The real information will be revealed to you by scientists who had to disappear so that you could know the truth and be safe....August 1, 2026
UFO mania tweet media
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mukhi
mukhi@theobromananda·
@Deepfryguy76 @maniaUFO There is the (You) tag next to the name. The person who took the screenshot also wrote the post, so its @maniaUFO claiming he saw a post in the wild. If he came across the screenshot, why would he lie about it?
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mukhi
mukhi@theobromananda·
The universe exists because we will create it in the future.
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mukhi
mukhi@theobromananda·
@innerpathing @NeiJingLover @jimfanara It is great that you gained something from your training! I will stop disparaging him, but I also hope that you do find a way towards the gem of authentic triple cultivation.
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mukhi
mukhi@theobromananda·
@innerpathing @NeiJingLover @jimfanara I mean, I can see why he lies about his connection to Shaolin. He often gets featured in European media and makes a lot of money from his position. Nevertheless he has no relation to Shaolin and is disavowed by the temple.
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Jim Fanara
Jim Fanara@jimfanara·
Very small sample size but ~45 min of QiGong after waking up has basically doubled my energy levels the past few days. I was struggling with low energy levels and now it’s back to normal or even elevated.
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mukhi@theobromananda·
@NeiJingLover @jimfanara @innerpathing FWIW Shi Heng Yi is a novice who founded his own off-shoot that has no relation to Shaolin Temple and isn't authorized to teach under the Shaolin name. His interviews were always strange.
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mukhi
mukhi@theobromananda·
@b82202 i was never in that bubble/group, i never believed anything like this. i just see so many insane people here that i am happy that QC has overcome it
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sensual young man
sensual young man@b82202·
but is he sane? > what eliezer did to you (and to me, and to many others) was monstrously evil how did yud even do this, i find this really confusing, do you all have some kind of collective insanity, or npc backdoor, or what? i probably didn't express myself well here but whatever, those that would understand already can understand this text
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QC
QC@QiaochuYuan·
this is going to sound like an attack but i swear i am actually trying to help you: you are deep in the throes of infection by a memetic virus eliezer yudkowsky banged together in his garage decades ago to take over other people's minds and convert them to his way of thinking about the singularity, which he spread through writing the sequences and hpmor, and which is powered at its core by a deep confusion between panicking over the idea of your loved ones dying and loving them. it maintains its grip over you by (among other things) 1. repeatedly insisting that the singularity is the most important thing ever, infinitely important, more important than any other merely earthly consideration, since the highest possible stakes (the entirety of human existence in the entire lightcone) are at risk; a sword of damocles hanging over literally everything you can even slightly plausibly causally affect; if it goes well that's infinitely good and if it goes wrong that's infinitely bad. infinite heaven or infinite hell 2. convincing you that this is a position only a sufficiently smart and sane person is capable of understanding and holding, which flatters your self-concept (which is hidden and which therefore, as jung pointed out, controls you), and conversely that people who don't agree are insane idiots you could not possibly learn anything from, so you not only should not listen to them but it is infinitely important for you not to listen to them, if you listen to them everyone you love dies 3. filling you with panic about how to prevent infinite hell while also convincing you that this is what it feels like to actually love your loved ones, which means this panic is infinitely good, and anyone or anything trying to get you to feel less of it is doing something infinitely bad, you cannot relax, if you relax your entire family dies you have been trapped in a hell realm, on purpose, powered by your own capacity to love which is being used to torture you into submission, by somebody who decided that your autonomy as a human being was worth sacrificing in the face of infinity. what eliezer did to you (and to me, and to many others) was monstrously evil and predicated on a heartbreaking mistake, and the reverberations of this extremely evil, extremely stupid thing that he did when he was a young, arrogant fool are still spreading and doing much harm in the world today, and will likely continue to do so i promise this is actually good news. the situation is actually much better than it seems when viewed from hell. you are not so intelligent and powerful that it is your sole job to be the light in the darkness, you do not have to shoulder the responsibility for the entire lightcone, your shoulders are literally too small, it is literally not your job, you are literally not and cannot be god (or atlas). nobody actually knows what's going to happen. we are foolish and weak and finite in the face of the true weight and depth and breadth of the world and history and karma and god, and that is fine and good and the completely normal situation every human being who ever lived has been in once you relax and open your eyes enough to actually take in what other people are doing and why you can begin to notice that love and wisdom are actually everywhere. people are foolish and cowardly and easily misled, but they are also wise and strong and brave and fighting every day for survival one way or another, and that's how it's always been. there is so much to learn from all the different ways the people of the world fight for the good today the sun is out and the view from my window is green and purple with life and the birds are chirping. right now, in this moment, i am alive, i am safe, my loved ones are safe. i can take a deep breath. i can go to the bathroom and drink water and make breakfast. i do not know what is going to happen next. and so it is with you
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Mikhail Samin@Mihonarium

I was born exactly 26 years ago. For the first time, I have a birthday that might be my last. I’m writing this to increase the chance it isn’t. A hundred thousand years ago, our ancestors appeared in a savanna with nothing but bare hands. Since then, we made nuclear bombs and landed on the moon. We dominate the planet not because we have sharp claws or teeth but because of our intelligence. Alan Turing argued that once machine thinking methods started, they’d quickly outstrip human capabilities, and that at some stage we should expect machines to take control. Until 2019, I didn’t really consider machine thinking methods to have started. GPT-2 changed that: computers really began to talk. GPT-2 was not smart at all; but it clearly grasped a bit of the world behind the words it was predicting. I was surprised and started anticipating a curve of AI development that would result in a fully general machine intelligence soon, maybe within the next decade. Before GPT-3 in 2020, I made a Metaculus prediction for the date a weakly general AI is publicly known with a median in 2029; soon, I thought, an artificial general intelligence could have the same advantage over humanity that humanity currently has over the rest of the species on our planet. AI progress in 2020-2025 was as expected. Sometimes a bit slower, sometimes a bit faster, but overall, I was never too surprised. We’re in a grim situation. AI systems are already capable enough to improve the next generation of AI systems. But unlike AI capabilities, the field of AI safety has made little progress; the problem of running superintelligent cognition in a way that does not lead to deaths everyone on the planet is not significantly closer to being solved than it was a few years ago. It is a hard problem. With normal software, we define precise instructions for computers to follow. AI systems are not like that. Making them is more akin to growing a plant than to engineering a rocket: we “train” billions or trillions of numbers they’re made of, to make them talk and successfully achieve goals. While all of the numbers are visible, their purpose is opaque to us. Researchers in the field of mechanistic interpretability are trying to reverse-engineer how fully grown AI works and what these opaque numbers mean. They have made a little bit of progress. But GPT-2 — a tiny model compared to the current state of art — came out 7 years ago, and we still haven’t figured out anything about how neural networks, including GPT-2, do the stuff that we can’t do with normal software. We know how to make AI systems smarter and more goal-oriented with more compute. But once AI is sufficiently smart, many technical problems prevent us from being able to direct the process of training to make AI’s long-term goals aligned with humanity’s values, or to even make AI care at all about humans. AI is trained only based on its behavior. If a smart AI figures out it’s in training, it will pretend to be good in an attempt to prevent its real goals from being changed by the training process and to prevent the human evaluators from turning it off. So during training, we won’t distinguish AIs that care about humanity from AIs that don’t: they’ll behave just the same. The training process will grow AI into a shape that can successfully achieve its goals, but as a smart AI’s goals don’t influence its behavior during training, this part of the shape AI grows into will not be accessible to the training process, and AI will end up with some random goals that don’t contain anything about humanity. The first paper demonstrating empirically that AIs will pretend to be aligned to the training objective if they’re given clues they’re in training came out one and a half years ago, “Alignment faking in large language models”. Now, AI systems regularly suspect they’re in alignment evaluations. The source of the threat of extinction isn’t AI hating humanity, it’s AI being indifferent to humanity by default. When we build a skyscraper, we don’t particularly hate the ants that previously occupied the land and die in the process. Ants can be an inconvenience, but we don’t give them much thought. If the first superintelligent AI relates to us the way we relate to ants, and has and uses its advantage over us the way we have and use our advantage over ants, we’re likely to die soon thereafter, because many of the resources necessary for us to live, from the temperature on Earth’s surface to the atmosphere to the atoms were made of, are likely to be useful for many of AI’s alien purposes. Avoiding that and making a superintelligent AI aligned with human values is a hard problem we’re not on a track to solve in time. *** A few years ago, I would mention novel vulnerabilities discovered by AI as a milestone: once AI can find and exploit bugs in software on the level of best cybersecurity researchers, there’s not much of the curve left until superintelligence capable of taking over and killing everyone. Perhaps a few months; perhaps a few years; but I did not expect, back then, for us to survive for long, once we’re at this point. We’re now at this point. AI systems find hundreds of novel vulnerabilities much faster than humans. It doesn’t make the situation any better that a significant and increasing portion of AI R&D is already done with AI, and even if the technical problem was not as hard as it is, there wouldn’t be much chance to get it right given the increasingly automated race between AI companies to get to superintelligence first. The only piece of good news is unrelated to the technical problem. If the governments decide to, they have the institutional capacity to make sure no one, anywhere, can create artificial superintelligence, until we know how to do that safely. The AI supply chain is fairly monopolized and has many chokepoints. If the US alone can’t do this, the US and China, coordinating to prevent everyone’s extinction, can. Despite that, previously, I didn’t pay much attention to governments; I thought they could not be sufficiently sane to intervene in the omnicidal race to superintelligence. I no longer believe that. It is now possible to get some people in the governments to listen to scientists. Many things make it much easier to get people to pay attention: the statement signed by hundreds of leading scientists that mitigating the risk from extinction from AI should be a global priority; the endorsements for “If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies” from important people; Geoffrey Hinton, who won the Nobel Prize for his foundational work on AI, leaving Google to speak out about these issues, saying there’s over 50% chance that everyone on Earth will die, and expressing regrets over his life’s work that he got Nobel prize for; actual explanations of the problem we’re facing, with evidence, unfortunately, all pointing in the same direction. Result of that: now, Bill Foster, the only member of Congress with PhD in physics, is trying to reduce the threat of AI killing everyone; and dozens of congressional offices have talked about the issue. That gives some hope. I think all of us have somewhere between six months and three years left to convince everyone else. *** When my mom called me earlier today, she wished me good health, maybe kids, and for AI not to win. The last one is tricky. Winning is what we train AIs to do. In a game against superintelligence, our only winning move is not to play. I love humanity. It is much better than it was, and it can get so much better than it is now. I really like the growth of our species so far and I want it to continue much further. That would be awesome. Galaxies full of life, of trillions and trillions of fun projects and feelings and stories. And I have to say that AI is wonderful. AlphaFold already contributes to the development of medicine; AI has positive impact on countless things. But humanity needs to get its act together. Unless we halt the development of general AI systems until we know it is safe to proceed, our species will not last for much longer. Every year until the heat death of our universe, we should celebrate at least 8 billion birthdays.

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owen cyclops
owen cyclops@owenbroadcast·
alright i got way too into this. have to pause this for now. check out these raw large cuts in the last two images
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