@goblinodds @DaCaveOfWonders just read this, thought you might enjoy it
astralcodexten.com/p/being-john-r…
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Alt-Ruist
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@DaCaveOfWonders @thisdoesnthelp afaict they just spend a lot of time engaged in apologetics for illiberal progressives, and rawls is one of the pillars of illiberal progressivism/woke/sjw/whatever you want to call it
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i didnt get this at first but
yeah, damn
how the fuck are these ideas so insidious, i feel like im having to rewire by brain one bit at a time (and i grew up extremely resistant to the whole memeplex that produces ideas like "achievement is fake"!)
eigenrobot@eigenrobot
john rawls and his consequences have been a disaster for the human race
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@goblinodds have you read any e. o. wilson? he studied ants and one of his well-known quotes is "karl marx was right, socialism works, it's just that he had the wrong species."
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finally realizing that "great men dont exist" isnt just unfortunate cope for mediocre people who are scared to find their potential, it's actually part of an anti-human ideology that treats people like worker ants
even hive insects arent interchangeable ffs
2HP goblin advisor@goblinodds
@thisdoesnthelp @DaCaveOfWonders basically "everyone is interchangeable, no one has particular abilities, every difference is socially constructed or structurally imposed, every achievement is the collective's not the individual's. you didn't build that"
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@goblinodds she made a lot more sense to me when i read the actual history of the soviet union! especially the part about lysenkoism and how they purged all the geneticists because the idea of dna was incompatible with their ideology of living organisms being interchangeable
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ive always loved Rand but thought she was a little hyperbolic, a little hysterical. but the older i get the more i understand
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me when someone shows me their vibecoded app
2HP goblin advisor@goblinodds
@thisdoesnthelp @DaCaveOfWonders basically "everyone is interchangeable, no one has particular abilities, every difference is socially constructed or structurally imposed, every achievement is the collective's not the individual's. you didn't build that"
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@DaCaveOfWonders @abecedarius @goblinodds i've always thought of the american usage of "liberal" as "generous" rather than "supports freedom" (basically someone who gives freely/liberally) - in most countries the word is ambiguous between the two but in the US it seems to lean much more toward the former
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@abecedarius @goblinodds @thisdoesnthelp Ok yeah, I think this is right actually. My poltical theory is ok but not great.
I want to say JS Mill is the quintessential classical liberal, and that got rebranded as libertarian once FDR and early 20th C progressives diverged and took the word liberal.
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@goblinodds @DaCaveOfWonders btw have you read nagel on moral luck? if not you should!
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@goblinodds @DaCaveOfWonders which ofc is part of the justification for free market economics (relying on some abstract "morality" to achieve cooperation isn't gonna be anywhere near as effective as structurally aligning people's incentives with other people's interests)
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@goblinodds @DaCaveOfWonders like either we get no credit or blame for anything our ancestors did, or we do. if we get credit for what they did, we also get blamed. but i think most of the people talking about deservingness here would oppose "people are responsible for historical wrongs"
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@goblinodds @DaCaveOfWonders also i think a bunch of the replies are falling into the mirror image of the "i don't deserve it bc luck" error which is "i deserve it because of my parents/ancestors' hard work" - this is also taking credit for the work of other individuals
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@goblinodds @DaCaveOfWonders technically liberal not conservative but in the american context liberalism is "conservative" so
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@goblinodds @DaCaveOfWonders oh like the framing that it's good for resources to travel to the place where they'll be put to their best use and that free markets enable this
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@goblinodds @DaCaveOfWonders i hit a point where i was crying myself to sleep bc i felt guilty for being born middle class when poor people existed who would have made better use of those resources than i could (a weird combination of sj + conservative views actually)
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@goblinodds @DaCaveOfWonders yep this is the thing i meant when i said if you follow the logic of sj to its conclusion it just collapses in on you and that's how many people who are deep into it manage to get out of it
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@goblinodds @DaCaveOfWonders yeah i've often said diangelo's worldview seems to me like a weird distorted version of noblesse oblige placed specifically on white people, but also mixed with guilt and treating all your prosocial actions as a debt you owe to others rather than being a good person
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@thisdoesnthelp @DaCaveOfWonders but the effect has basically been to instill this feeling in a bunch of people while erasing any sense of agency from everyone. side note i think it's sad that they flushed noblesse oblige down the toilet
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@goblinodds @DaCaveOfWonders even if they were a poor white immigrant who had to work really hard for what they had, this was treated as luck bc "white privilege"
but by the same logic a nonwhite person born in the west is also lucky, but that's impossible to say bc "that's a result of oppression"
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@goblinodds @DaCaveOfWonders i did read about this rhetoric in robin diangelo's phd thesis where she analyzes an antiracism workshop and people are totally unwilling to admit that hard work has anything to do with white people's position in society
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