@gallagherbren58 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler @ProgressiveRug @AlixPopham @Tommo33s Hopefully sense prevails for the good of the game and all involved 👍
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Tom Rock
361 posts
@tomrock84 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler @ProgressiveRug @AlixPopham @Tommo33s Possibly. I know of documented cases stretching back to 1977 when RFU doctors intervened to insist a player who was getting knocked out retire and take up reffing. It's a v mixed picture. Well see how it works out. Will be surprised if we get a ruling b4 end of decade
Copthorne, South East 🇬🇧 English
So if this is confirmed, why do world rugby continue to deny and not face the problem. They knew long ago the ramifications of RHI's And choose to keep that information from players of all levels. Litigation aside isnt that in the area of criminal action?
NEUROPRAXIS@NeuroPraxis_Co
Research continues to confirm the long-term impact of repetitive #braininjury. #CTE is clearly linked to #dementia, reinforcing the need for #prevention, early intervention, and ongoing #recovery support. #TBI #brain #stroke #concussion #rehabilitation #Rehab #SCI #California
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@gallagherbren58 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler The likes of @ProgressiveRug might argue we’re a long way from best practice? Some also might also argue that litigation and the stand made by the likes of @AlixPopham @Tommo33s was a key factor in governing bodies making any improvements
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@tomrock84 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler The. Ours casevus essentially abt historic cases, some of them v old pre professionalism. Best practice, with one or two exceptions, has been 8n 0lace for a while and it's nigh on impossible for recent professionals to try and argue ignorance abt potential for head injuries
Copthorne, South East 🇬🇧 English
@gallagherbren58 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler Why does the court case impact wider best practice, it shouldn’t? You obviously know more about the case than I do, I wasn’t aware of that
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@Rich_CoatesCTE @tomrock84 @9smiler The main reason it's taking so long at present is the absence of even remoteky complete medical records 9f those claiming and/or reluctance to submit records
There r other complications. Many hv documented injuies in other sports - boxing, rugby league or were in car accidents
Copthorne, South East 🇬🇧 English
@gallagherbren58 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler "A 2023 Boston University study found that 345 of 376 (approximately 91.7%) analyzed brains of former NFL players contained CTE" - is rugby similar? in which case the majority (at a pro level) maybe do have neuro deficit? Again, scary. Transparency about the risk is key
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@tomrock84 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler Not sure abt those stats, of true everybody who plays for a good period of time is likely to end up with CTE which manifestly is no true. The overwhelming majority of players at all levels end up with MP neurological defecit and always hv
The tick here is to find the link.......
Crawley, South East 🇬🇧 English
@gallagherbren58 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler indeed, but I read one study that said the risk of CTE increases 14% for every year of rugby played... and neurological issues 2.5 times more prevalent in former international players. Scary. RU governing bodies still deny the link as far as I know
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@tomrock84 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler Complicated subject obviously. Vast majority of people who get dimentia never play any sport of any kind so that's a statistical hurdle that has 2b cleared or understood . Ie a % of all rugby players will get dimentia anyway regardless of fact they play rugby!
Crawley, South East 🇬🇧 English
@gallagherbren58 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler I can’t comment on that as I don’t know the individuals, but it’s not just concussion despite the current focus on that, as far as I know governing bodies still publicly reject links between repetitive head injury (sub concussive head impacts) and CTE/dementia etc
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@tomrock84 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler ... Others perhaps not so fortunate. Some of those making the claim were advised repeatedly to retire by specialists but played on
Crawley, South East 🇬🇧 English
@gallagherbren58 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler If I eat a piece of chocolate I accept the risk I might choke, if the manufacturer also knew there was an ingredient that might cause long term damage and didn’t tell anyone/insisted it was safe it it’s different right? I knew of a risk, I didn’t know ‘the risks’. Nuanced.
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@gallagherbren58 @Rich_CoatesCTE @9smiler That’s one question. But we can’t package specific risk of brain damage with all risks. I don’t believe players knew that risk, I suspect ‘rugby’ did or at least should’ve. The fact ‘rugby’ still disputes this specific link, is also impossible to reconcile with that position
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Same here in N. Ireland. No help and no awareness. No support available for me or my family. TBI team say I don't sit with them and I'm too young for the dementia services, brick wall after brick wall. Disheartening doing nothing as the decline creeps on 😢
Marshalling Brain Injuries Alliance@Marshalling_CTE
@BBCWalesNews I would like to point out every single person we support in wales are being turned away by the memory and dementia services, with some even being refused to be seen because "they are too young to access these services"
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@BBCWalesNews We knew the risks 40 years ago when I played. You take responsibility for your body.
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My shirt was soaked in blood - but I was told to get back on the rugby pitch bbc.in/4rPEJK3
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Time for a conversation based on latest science @WorldRugby @RFU? Are 12 year olds being harmed under your governance? This work by @ChrisNowinski1 suggests possibly so… Parents and children deserve transparency in order to weigh risk vs reward… it’s the cover up that gets you
Alix Popham@AlixPopham
Take action now @WorldRugby 😔😢😡🙏❤️🏉🧠
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Finally, I have to question the culture and ‘rugby values’ of those bodies who know doubt trade on the same characteristics. I’m gutted for the game I love and believe the threat to the sport isn’t by those lobbying for changes, it’s those bodies handling this so pooorly
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Reflecting on @QuilterNations I think it would be almost impossible to create a more inconsistent, poorly communicated & poorly executed set of policies than they’ve managed with head contact in rugby union @ProgressiveRug @WorldRugby @Head4Change @AndrewW93733842 @mulcs85
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@WorldRugby and constituent bodies insist game is safest ever, and player welfare is #1 priority, but comments on here acknowledge they are negotiating away/weakening player protections due to commercial interests or because of fears stakeholders won’t adopt them
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Worst still fans don’t get why the changes are required, partly because @worldrugby and others still look to minimise the risk of the games as is, based on increasingly marginalised science, whilst broadly dismissing the diagnoses of the likes of @AlixPopham or @Tommo33s (and me)
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This isn’t an academic study with interesting outcomes from abstract test subjects. It’s players lives, and it seems @WorldRugby are using the lessons learned to evolve the likes of the HIA process, - is this ethical & I also question whether players have properly consented
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Referees are reacting to pressure week to week (either public or from their higher ups, who knows), and they are clearly operating on different law interpretations to the subsequent panels issuing rescindments. I
Think refs have been poor but they are being undermined weekly
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@Scienceofsport @Mud_n_Guts @ScottBirch17 @jaredwright17 @WorldRugby Morning Ross, thanks for clarifying. I still don’t quite understand how you reconcile this with clinical signs (which read to me as Cat 1 criteria) always leading to permanent removal (ie no off field assessment) or has there been some relaxation of this?
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@Mud_n_Guts @tomrock84 @ScottBirch17 @jaredwright17 @WorldRugby ...that further assessment was required. There has always been a debate about whether an HIA should be done for foul play too - ever since we introduced the HTSF that specified "degree of danger" and identified direct contact. The various groups - medics, match officials, players
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Note another week when an alleged head contact has occurred but there hasn't been a subsequent HIA.
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@mulcs85 @Scienceofsport @ScottBirch17 @jaredwright17 @WorldRugby @ProgressiveRug It's @worldrugby leading policy on both though and I would argue both are impacted by many of the same difficulties, chief of which IMHO is a complete failure (for reasons we can all speculate on) to transparently communicate the risks that render radical change necessary 😞🧠
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@tomrock84 @Scienceofsport @ScottBirch17 @jaredwright17 @WorldRugby @ProgressiveRug The disciplinary issue is separate tho I personally think officials have a duty to intervene more than they do
Richmond, London 🇬🇧 English
@mulcs85 @Scienceofsport @ScottBirch17 @jaredwright17 @WorldRugby @ProgressiveRug Yeah it's strange that @worldrugby are relying document that no longer reflects common (and their endorsed) practice, and is apparently in need of revision. Maybe not a surprise given the absolute shambles of recent disciplinary incidents that there is no coherent position
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@tomrock84 @Scienceofsport @ScottBirch17 @jaredwright17 @WorldRugby @ProgressiveRug Ross has been consistent on this - a heavy blow is not in of itself sufficient to trigger removal for HIA1 - there must be clinical indications observed by medics that raise suspicions - you're right so far as I know that that's not stated in any public facing document
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