vallerchi

@HelenWebberley Genderism has been around for at least 15 years now. It's got progressively more insane. In another ten years, god knows what will be being claimed. Perhaps that female sperm is better at swimming than male sperm.

In 10 years, the outrage around trans people will look ridiculous (a thread):

@Theleftorwright @Spearthe19th @CommissarPickle A vagina is not a male sexual organ. I can understand trying to defend trans people from hatred directed at them, but this insanity in no way helps their cause. Zero gay men are sexually aroused by the sight of a vagina. They are repulsed by them.

@Spearthe19th @CommissarPickle If a gay man and a trans man are dating, that doesn't mean the gay man is attracted to the opposite sex. It means he was attracted to the maleness of the trans man. And yes, he's still gay.

Throughout human history, lesbians and trans women have dated, and formed relationships. That's the truth.

@CommissarPickle @Spearthe19th @Theleftorwright You're arguing that the vagina is the sexual organ of a man, and that a gay man is sexually attracted to vaginas. Are you aware just how insane this claim is?

@Spearthe19th @vallerchip @Theleftorwright I'm not saying gay men are attracted to masculine women. I'm saying they can be attracted to trans men. Those are 2 different things. A butch woman is still a woman, a trans man is not a woman. It's in the name trans MAN.

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t I'm asking this as I've known a transsexual person for over ten years, and to who the gender business is 100% irrelevant. There is only one constant - feeling they belong to the female group. The gender business is where many people start to take issue. 2/2

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t Why would your identity rely on how others saw the larger group or what they expected from them? Say it became a 50/50 thing with half of all women going full on masculine, and the other half full on feminine, why would this affect your identity? 1/2

Hunter Schafer is a biological woman and your comment about her having "biological male strength" is transphobic! Estrogen HRT makes you weaker, it changes your whole hormonal base. You become a biological woman. You don't defend womanhood by making bioessentialist arguments.

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t So for you, gender presentation, cultural roles, gendered expectations could all go out the window (as it likely would in a group of butch lesbians and feminine men) and it would not affect your identity?

@vallerchip @ellagoer_t4t yeah, because as you've said yourself, our culture doesn't really gender people based on femininity/masculinity.

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t ...identify with the females/women, and not the men/males?

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t Sorry I didn't mean a future scenario by the last example. In a possible present day situation where there might be a group of women (females) who happened to be the most gnc, butch lesbians going, and a group of extremely feminine men (males), I'm assuming you would still...

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t and the men and women wanted to segregate along male/female lines for a period, which group would you feel you belonged to?

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t I'm a bit lost again.These are not trick questions or gotchas btw. You said: "I dont think the cultural aspects were very significant in that decision." If you found yourself among a group of people, half of them very gnc women (females) & the other half very gnc men (males)...

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t Ah OK. So if gender norms disapeared completely, but men and women were still segregated by the male and female sex on the occasions that required it, I'm guessing you would still feel like you belonged to the women/female group?

@vallerchip @ellagoer_t4t I medically transitioned because I had dysphoria. I dont think the cultural aspects were very significant in that decision. I have a pretty typical mix of both feminine and masculine interests and preferences. Socially and phenotypically I fit more in the female gender role.

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t PS probably the most civil conversation I've ever had regarding gender 😀

@vallerchip @ellagoer_t4t Sure, and i can say there are only about 4 eye color types if I ignore the nuance that color exists on a spectrum. The decision of saying "eh these are close enough to be in the same category" is the subjectivity I'm talking about. Who even decides that we need these categories?

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t So what would you yourself place into the 'woman' section in the diagram, relating to your current understanding of the term in the part of the world where you live?

@vallerchip @ellagoer_t4t It "exists" culturally yeah. And yes I think self identification makes the most sense for a system in terms of reducing harm. But gender abolition is the end goal.

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t Yes, but all gender fans I have spoken with believe that such a 'gender' *currently* exists, and a person can identify into/as another gender if they don't feel they fit within the (self-imposed as far as I can see) boundaries of a particular gender. Is this also your position?

@vallerchip @ellagoer_t4t It depends on the time period and culture you're in. There's no rigid answer because its a social construct. My issue with radfems is most I see pretend that gender just doesnt exist. They dont work towards gender abolition, they just pretend it already happened.

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t We're talking about 5 or 6 of the numerous DSDs that the medical world considers worthy of placing under an 'intersex' umbrella here. I have no problem with the intersex category. It doesn't however leave very many people (0.018%) outside of their current male and female category

@vallerchip @ellagoer_t4t The notion of categorizing bodies is itself subjective. Irrespective of gender, even sex classifications are subjective. There are XY people who have given birth. Are they women or men or "outliers"? Who decides on a binary system that doesn't account for all possible bodies?

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t Sorry I dont think I was clear again. "The behavior of basing gender on sex is itself a social stereotype." Do you mean anything other than identifying that there are groups of people that share the same type of bodies?

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t ...'gender', even taking into account that a majority of people fit more neatly into one box more than the other. What belongs exclusively to the 'woman' section below?

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t Sorry I perhaps wasn't clear. I mean hardly anybody uses presentation to identify someone as man or woman. Secondary sex traits will override this nearly every time. As in the case of my neighbour.

@pbjt556262 @ellagoer_t4t "But we do with presentation and secondary sex traits" I'm arguing that nobody does this with presentation, apart from perhaps those heavily invested in gendered behaviours. Secondary sex traits - yes. Presentation - hardly ever. I can't recall ever using the latter.