WillC

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WillC

WillC

@willchen500

Oxford law, former Latham associate

Singapore เข้าร่วม Aralık 2025
155 กำลังติดตาม2.4K ผู้ติดตาม
ทวีตที่ปักหมุด
WillC
WillC@willchen500·
Harvey is valued at $11B. Legora just raised at $5.5B. I built their entire web application in two weeks and I'm making it open-source and free for everyone to use. Say hi to Mike: mikeoss.com. When I got the chance to try Harvey and Legora, I was surprised by how simple they were. A thought came to mind: I could probably build something similar in no time at all with Claude. And so I did. Assistant, project, tabular review and workflows. You get it all without vendor lock-in. Mike offers law firms an alternative, where they own the application layer and aren't stuck with a vendor they're renewing forever. You can try Mike in the demo on the website, or go to the GitHub link on the site to download the code and run a local version yourself.
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WillC
WillC@willchen500·
@Badfaith___ Agentic workflows was last season its Agentic OS now
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WillC
WillC@willchen500·
How many times has Legora marketed itself as having "agentic workflows", being an "agentic platform" before now being an "agentic OS™". Just go to google and search 'site:legora.com "agentic"' to see for yourself. I looked at the announcement and I frankly failed to spot anything new other than a flashy demo and a trademark. Not only that but there seems to be a bad formatting error on the announcement page which I assumed comes from vibe code. Did no one check it before it went out.
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WillC@willchen500·
@latentsaint @MattWil12 Cursor is going to be bought by xAI for 60b so I don’t think it is out of the realm of possibility. Also Harvey raised from Sam Altman. Maybe the labs will wait for some distress before buying
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Tom
Tom@latentsaint·
@willchen500 @MattWil12 Good strat but surely legora (& harvey) are too expensive now for the buy out to be worthwhile?
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WillC
WillC@willchen500·
@solirvine Throw big IT word at lawyer Lawyer like Lawyer buy
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Sol Irvine
Sol Irvine@solirvine·
@willchen500 Any time I see "operating system" branding, I know it's a kitchen-sink product without a coherent vision. All these legal AI platforms try to cover every practice area and law office function at once, which usually means they don't do anything well.
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WillC
WillC@willchen500·
@MattWil12 I think they could do that. Or acquisition by one of the big labs.
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Matthias Willau
Matthias Willau@MattWil12·
@willchen500 Do you think it would be more efficient for them to be a law firm and undercut everyone in price for legal services?
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WillC
WillC@willchen500·
@eigen_moomin The inflation must be crazy in openai heaven
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eigen moomin
eigen moomin@eigen_moomin·
how it feels like to open the monthly bill from openai
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WillC
WillC@willchen500·
@sidharthkmenon By the way I see that you are in YC and for your seed round you can have lawyers from white shoe firms who will review your docs for free provided you sign a letter of intent to use them for later rounds
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Sid Menon
Sid Menon@sidharthkmenon·
@willchen500 Gotcha. I would imagine that 500 might be cheap compared to a white shoe law firm though (I have no idea how much lawyers like that cost ?) Separately, do you even think it’s possible to remove the billable hour portion of this
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WillC
WillC@willchen500·
One of the tragedies of legal tech is that despite billions of dollars spent on distribution and teaching lawyers to use AI, nothing has really changed in the way legal services are delivered. Nothing has really changed for clients as well. The billable hour remains as strong as ever, billable hours stay constant, and prices keep going up year after year.
Soren Larson@hypersoren

I think flaming is generally bad taste, but it’s also true AI affords us a level of abstraction where a real human job is developing normative takes about the technologies we pursue. in this screenshot thread I noted there’s persistent sense across the timeline that Harvey is a meme play for Boomers who want Secure Chat. @scottastevenson appropriately calls this Champagne AI. My smartest friends seem to want to work on AI plays that exploit some property of AI to introduce a new value proposition, structurally counter an old one, or expand service to an underserved audience. Harvey does none of these. It’s at best an expensive lifestyle product for the well heeled partner class. That seems to make for a good business, but we shouldn’t pretend that’s particularly interesting. AI has a bad reputation in part because it’s a product specifically for Capital. Harvey is a canonical example of this. Does Harvey make legal more accessible? Or change the business model of legal? No. No Sequoia think piece will change this. A partner at a Legora customer excitedly shared with me how they were using AI at the firm. I asked > cool so what’s in it for me > cheaper service? 😉 I got no answer. As AI races up the stack, discussion of norms and aesthetics is exactly the sort of human exercise we should expect to do more. Raising Prestigious Capital doesn’t excuse you from being responsible to questions like these — if anything it raises the expectations to have clear answers.

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WillC@willchen500·
White shoe law firms actually don't charge the full billable hour for this. It is heavily discounted sometimes free for their PE clients. Some firms have an NDA rota that was staffed by junior attorneys. There have also long been companies that just do NDA reviews with tech automation long before the AI wave. I think flat rate could be possible for more complex stuff with AI. perhaps a series A or B round. or a routine bank financing. But the highest end of legal work has uncertainty baked in so flat rate is hard. Right now reviewing NDAs and MSAs is really not ground breaking.
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WillC@willchen500·
Tbh I was kind of thinking they were a bit of a fad. But having learnt how behind traditional law firms are on AI they could actually bring innovation. It depends on what they are building internally. I imagine a lot just have some tools not too different from Harvey and Legora at this point. In which case they don’t bring any innovation. Some like Crosby charge like 500 for an NDA review which is ridiculous.
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WillC
WillC@willchen500·
This is a wild way to market a lawyer asking some questions to an LLM behind a UI + custom prompt wrapper. I assume the target audience in Biglaw actually eats it up anyways. Harvey marketing team is always killing it. They have my genuine admiration. (0 sarcasm)
Harvey@harvey

How does a seasoned Supreme Court lawyer prepare for the biggest case of his life? Using Harvey. Read how Harvey supported @neal_katyal in refining his arguments before the Supreme Court and how we are bringing those tools to law schools with Harvey Moot: harvey.ai/blog/the-supre…

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WillC@willchen500·
@juliesaltman Boomer partners fall for this crap. Makes for great polite conservation at conferences
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Julie Saltman
Julie Saltman@juliesaltman·
@willchen500 Having been in Supreme Court moots, I find Harvey’s claim hard to take seriously. I think Katyal’s the newest celebrity spokesperson. Very good marketing indeed.
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WillC
WillC@willchen500·
@saadenam And the fish can’t see the fisherman just the bait
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WillC
WillC@willchen500·
People say that Mike is a just vibe coded copy of Harvey but then they forget Legora was the OG in this respect Oh and Harvey is vibe coded as well. Any decent SWE will recognise vibe code instantly but lawyers can’t and they think they are getting some artisanal hand written code.
Zach Abramowitz@ZachAbramowitz

I’m not an investor in Harvey or Legora but I find it weird that all the hate has been directed towards Harvey when Legora is MUCH more hate-worthy Alright, flight taking off now, see y’all in a bit

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WillC@willchen500·
@ElliotVaucher Just making the broader point. Yes it’s far from linux. Mike is a proof of concept. It is vibe coded and simple just like Harvey and Legora. If you try both on you’ll instantly recognise them as vibe coded apps and they don’t work very well either
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Elliot Vaucher
Elliot Vaucher@ElliotVaucher·
While I do respect the approach, and agree on a lot of what you are highlighting in the legaltech industry (the money raised is mostly non sense), I think it’s a bit unrealistic to compare two weeks (could be an afternoon) of codex tokens thrown at a web app, that doesn’t even implement web search, to Linux now, isn’t it ? 🙃
WillC@willchen500

I was interviewed yesterday by The Australian Financial Review on Mike. The article notes the game-changing impact that Mike has had on the legaltech industry, less than a week after release. The article also features the first public comment from Harvey. Their spokesperson stated that "big proprietary platforms such as Harvey remained best placed to meet the intensive technology needs of law firms, including robust data security, around-the-clock support and access to a range of large language models." I agree on the security and service requirements of big law firms. But let me address the "proprietary" bit. A piece of software being private rather than open source does not equate to having technological moat, nor does it mean that it is secure. The idea that private = secure and open source = insecure is a pretty widespread misconception in the legal industry. Some of most secure and robust software in the world used by everyone, like Linux, is open source. Any modern piece of software is built upon the foundation laid by open source libraries, and that includes Harvey. It is precisely because of open source communities that we have these public goods. Article: This ‘game changer’ free app could blow up the $23b legal AI sector afr.com/companies/prof…

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Ai Counsel
Ai Counsel@cyrusjohnson·
@willchen500 go look at the guy b4 someone tells him to take it down
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Ai Counsel
Ai Counsel@cyrusjohnson·
no they actually did create and announced a product called “Harvey Moot”
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