Bartłomiej Gostyński

7.7K posts

Bartłomiej Gostyński

@bart_gostynski

Devoted fan of Agatha Cristie's novels and baroque music. PhD in computational chemistry.

شامل ہوئے Ocak 2018

850 فالونگ94 فالوورز

Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·1d

@bwukkers49667 @dweebzilla @OttoBerlandieri You cannot logically say that pressing the red button does not actively diminish the chances of survival for the blue 🤷 You want to preserve both things - your life and your moral innocence, but by the very construction of the game, it is logically impossible.

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Bwukkers@bwukkers49667·2d

@dweebzilla @OttoBerlandieri If blue wins, reds killed nobody. If blue loses, blues killed other blues by guilting them into giving up their safety. The only way to possibly be a bad person in this scenario is to hit the blue button. It's like jumping into a lake and starting a chain of drowning people

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Otto 👑🦡@OttoBerlandieri·2d

People who push the red button are the same kind of people who would hide they were bit by a zombie. Not exactly, but It's selfish preservation that condemns others to die for no reason if they successfully hide it. Its a direct choice to that. Blue means NOBODY loses. It goes to show how so many people would gladly pick something that benefits themselves at the loss of others over the SAME benefit to everyone, including themselves. For many reasons, distrust your fellow man will make the same choice, "I got mine" mentality, or just instinctual self preservation, etc.. Its a social morality experiment, there is no "right answer" but what you pick says alot about you.

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·1d

@hunsucker_adam @theramblingfool @PunishedJeanLuc @subcountability Your reasoning is just... incomplete, to put it mildly. No one is "saving" the blue from anything. They chose a risky strategy that has a chance of saving everyone at a much lower threshold. And the red voters are precisely the thing that makes it risky in the first place.

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Adam Hunsucker@hunsucker_adam·1d

@theramblingfool @PunishedJeanLuc @subcountability Here is another issue I have with blue choosers. You assume that only red have agency, that blue choosers never really had a choice and it is up to everyone to save them from themselves. If you choose blue and you die, that's your fault.

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Russell@theramblingfool·2d

If you're smart enough to understand the hypothetical requires analytical reasoning, but not smart enough to evaluate the hypothetical's actual complexity, you're going to be wrong and very confident. And anyone who understands enough to get it right will look stupid to you.

Crémieux@cremieuxrecueil

Red and blue button pushers: who's smarter? In a mostly-subscriber sample who took a brief verbal IQ test, the answer is... Blue pushers! If the whole population has an IQ of 100 with an SD of 15, their mean IQ would be 101.9, versus 97.0 for reds.

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·3d

@SDSansing @fucktard6969 @cinnamontoastk Of course, "red" not "right" xD

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·3d

@SDSansing @fucktard6969 @cinnamontoastk It's ok, you don't have to. You just only have to accept the fact that it's the pressing the right button that starts this race with the death. And each vote red is diminishing the chances of survival for the other part.

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CinnamonToastKen@cinnamontoastk·3d

This red button/blue button discourse is wild. 100% red saves everyone no consequence 51% of blue saves everyone no consequence 51% red kills all of blue but they frame it like its blues fault they had to kill them even though red is the only choice that causes anyone to die.

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·3d

@notpostingguy @5stringTex @CoolCuteJin If only you are ok with actively increasing chances of death for others - you can press red with clean conscience

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·3d

@notpostingguy @5stringTex @CoolCuteJin Of course, there is - you are then actively diminishing the chances of survival for other people, who chose blue. Besides, in order to save everyone: red: requirement of 100% coordination blue: requirement of above 50% coordination. Which one is more likely?

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Jeff ⚓️@5stringTex·4d

I made a table for this. If you pick red, you will always survive. If you pick blue, you might die. You should always pick red.

MrBeast@MrBeast

Everyone on earth takes a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of people press the blue button, only people who pressed the red button survive. Which button would you press? BE HONEST.

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·3d

@5stringTex @CoolCuteJin Well... Yes, only your attitude shows that instead of "I don't want anybody to die and I am willing to risk my life for it" you are just picking "I am ok with actively diminishing others chances of survival, if only I stay alive" 🤷

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Jeff ⚓️@5stringTex·3d

@CoolCuteJin If you pick red, you will always survive, regardless of what other people choose.

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·5d

@johnloeber @mononaut @waitbutwhy Btw, in order to be 100% compatible with the game, the yellow one should be framed as: "If you press yellow, you survive, but you will take one vote from the stack needed for the green pressers to survive" Otherwise you just set up STH different than the original problem.

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John Loeber 🎢@johnloeber·5d

@mononaut @waitbutwhy Pressing blue does not “do nothing” in your framing because it does something — it’s an affirmative vote against red

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John Loeber 🎢@johnloeber·5d

Okay, this is my contribution to the Blue/Red button discourse. By reframing the Blue/Red prompt, and writing it in an equivalent-but-different way, votes move from @waitbutwhy's prompt: - Blue 58% -> 25% - Red 42% -> 75% It's as I suspected in my Rot13 post below: when people see the Blue/Red prompt, they pattern match it to similar-looking Prisoners Dilemma scenarios, where the correct, pro-social move is to cooperate while taking on some risk. But this scenario is not the same. This is interesting to me, because if so much of the vote is in the framing and pattern-matching of the problem, then this is actually a reading comprehension test, not an ethical dilemma.

John Loeber 🎢@johnloeber

Imagine everyone has to press either a yellow or green button - If you press yellow, you survive - If you press green, you die, except if more than 50% of people press green, in which case everyone survives, regardless of if they pressed yellow or green Which do you press?

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·5d

@PutinLikePutin @TheJamie @Peekaboo_69420 @rnewton7777 Besides again, your building analogy contains a false premise: “there is no one inside at first.” In the actual-live dilemma, some people will inevitably press blue. So staying outside is not neutral.

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·5d

@PutinLikePutin @TheJamie @Peekaboo_69420 @rnewton7777 That is the dilemma: failed cooperation endangeres the cooperating group; successful cooperation saves everyone, with much less coordination needed, only 50%+1. Pretending only the failed branch exists is not logic.

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·5d

@PutinLikePutin @TheJamie @Peekaboo_69420 @rnewton7777 You are conveniently focused solely on purely narcissistic blue motives instead of acknowledging that the real argument is structural: blue contributes to a lower rescue-all threshold, red withholds from it You cannot even do otherwise because your whole way of thinking fails xD

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·5d

@PutinLikePutin @TheJamie @Peekaboo_69420 @rnewton7777 It’s rather: “Some people will choose blue, including vulnerable or loved people. Blue is the only threshold that can save them. Red makes that threshold harder to reach. Better to risk and press the blue.”

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·5d

@PutinLikePutin @TheJamie @Peekaboo_69420 @rnewton7777 The dilemma here, genius, is rather "rescue everyone but risk your life" versus "secure your own life at the expense of making the death of others more likely" What you just couldn't understand is the "at the expense of making the death of others more likely" part.

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Mirosław Kosiorkiewicz@PutinLikePutin·6d

@TheJamie @bart_gostynski @Peekaboo_69420 @rnewton7777 Nah man... In this particular scenario you have to be either altruistic or suicidal to consider blue as "default". It is not "my reason", it's called sanity. This "dilema" is literally either live or gamble your life for others sake.

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·5d

@PutinLikePutin @TheJamie @Peekaboo_69420 @rnewton7777 You claim "blue is a necessary condition" and you stop there, content with yourself. Yes, it is NECESSARY, it's true, but it alone is NOT SUFFICIENT because if the blue exceeds 50% - no deaths as well. There is a possibility that at least one person pressed blue and no one died

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Bartłomiej Gostyński@bart_gostynski·5d

@PutinLikePutin @TheJamie @Peekaboo_69420 @rnewton7777 NO! How many times should I explain this to you? There are TWO conditions that have to be fulfilled SIMULTANEOUSLY. 1. There must be at least one person pressing blue; 2. The number of red voters must exceed 50%.

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دریافت کریں

@bwukkers49667 @dweebzilla @OttoBerlandieri @hunsucker_adam @theramblingfool @PunishedJeanLuc @subcountability @SDSansing