Limit and Mind | Know the Times

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Limit and Mind | Know the Times

Limit and Mind | Know the Times

@limitandmind

Data Scientist exploring where probability meets Providence. Writing on Christian apologetics, AI, and why order in the universe isn't accidental.

At the limits ➡️ شامل ہوئے Kasım 2016
226 فالونگ305 فالوورز
پن کیا گیا ٹویٹ
Limit and Mind | Know the Times
> Show me the evidence > Sure, that's a reasonable request. Here are the eyewitness testimonies to Jesus's life, death, and Resurection > That's not evidence > Ok, how about the myriad of archeological findings that support the historical Biblical account? > That's not evidence > Alright, let's use science. The Big Bang and Fine tuning show that a Creator is more likely than not > That's not evidence > Ok, perhaps a philosophical argument will do the trick. Contingency, MOA, Moral argument, and the Kalam. > That's not evidence > Ok, it's hard to see what you'll accept as evidence at this point. I'm starting to think you don't actually want the evidence.
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Limit and Mind | Know the Times
@MarioFunk Yes we have to define God to know who He is. There problem is you see no difference between your arbitrary definition and the non-arbitrary definition of the theist. You think that saying he could be yellow is a meaningful retort in this conversation.
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Mario Villalobos
Mario Villalobos@MarioFunk·
@limitandmind You are now asigning features to this “god”. I could say that this god is yellow, both our claims are equally unverifiable
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Limit and Mind | Know the Times
> Show me the evidence > Sure, that's a reasonable request. Here are the eyewitness testimonies to Jesus's life, death, and Resurection > That's not evidence > Ok, how about the myriad of archeological findings that support the historical Biblical account? > That's not evidence > Alright, let's use science. The Big Bang and Fine tuning show that a Creator is more likely than not > That's not evidence > Ok, perhaps a philosophical argument will do the trick. Contingency, MOA, Moral argument, and the Kalam. > That's not evidence > Ok, it's hard to see what you'll accept as evidence at this point. I'm starting to think you don't actually want the evidence.
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CarlP
CarlP@cgp42·
@limitandmind @mostlyreplies Because it doesn't escape the dilemma. The problem is it's either from God or outside God, and arguing it's from God doesn't solve it. Which is what the "third horn" does imo. It tries to expose a false dilemma that just isn't there.
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Limit and Mind | Know the Times
> Morality is subjective? You don't have morality anymore. You have preference. > Reject the that things, like the universe, need an explanation? You undercut the motivation behind science, and you introduce radical skepticism about what we think we already know > Embrace materialism? You don't have the reality of mathematics anymore, it's just a useful fiction > Reject God? You get hell If the source of goodness goes away, the goodness goes with Him.
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Mario Villalobos
Mario Villalobos@MarioFunk·
@limitandmind @MerkMilly I can imagine a god with different features too, you can even deffend on a philosophical level that this creator god is evil or that it has no personal relationship with its creation. I agree philosophy is the best field for theism not to seem dumb, but there are still problems
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CarlP
CarlP@cgp42·
@limitandmind @mostlyreplies I already have. We clearly still disagree. That's the point. It's possible to just accept that intelligent, rational people can disagree with you.
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clownes
clownes@clownesvanzandt·
@limitandmind Cosmic splats and their monkey cousins don't want to hear that argument. They want to you to wonder at how intelligent they are
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CarlP
CarlP@cgp42·
@limitandmind @mostlyreplies I'm well aware of the response. But much like the Trinity, it's a response no one that isn't already on board is going to agree with. It's why it's still an objection thousands of years later. You should be able to grant there are rational reasons to disagree with you on this.
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Mario Villalobos
Mario Villalobos@MarioFunk·
@limitandmind @MerkMilly Why is it contingent? Besides you saying so. You say god is the necessary being, I say this unicorn is the necessary being, please tell me how is this different
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Mario Villalobos
Mario Villalobos@MarioFunk·
@MerkMilly @limitandmind Sure man, I can also say a magical, ethereal unicorn is a necessary being that created the universe and explain nature as well 😉
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Limit and Mind | Know the Times
Neither horn of the dilemma is forced on the theist who actually thinks about it. The false choice assumes God’s commands are either arbitrary or that goodness is some external standard God has to obey. There is a third option: God is goodness itself. His nature just is the standard of moral perfection, necessary, unchanging, and not “governed” by anything outside Himself. Commands flow from that nature; they aren’t random decrees or submissions to a higher law.
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CarlP
CarlP@cgp42·
@limitandmind @mostlyreplies Is something good because God says it is? Or does God obey what is morally good? If the former, that's divine command theory. If the latter, God isn't the source of good but is governed by it. Either way it undermines the relevance God can have on moral issues.
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Mario Villalobos
Mario Villalobos@MarioFunk·
@limitandmind Because you don’t know where it leads, that is the honest answer. You can make up a metaphysical being in order to cope, but the features of this being or whatever you want to atribute to it are just in your imagination
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Freedo McRy
Freedo McRy@freedarkcry·
@limitandmind "We've tried every trick and they still want actual evidence, no fair"
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Mostly Replies 🥍🤷‍♂️⚛️
@limitandmind @AleMartnezR1 Theism is, in all its forms, a subjective moral framework. Things that need an explanation do not need a fictional explanation. Math is still real even if the universe is an illusion. Hell is evidence that God, as defined by those who believe in hell, is not good.
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Mostly Replies 🥍🤷‍♂️⚛️
@limitandmind @cgp42 Subjective morality is proven to be subjective by whether the subject of actions or the object of actions are the source of the moral facts that determine whether it is true or not. Not only is God a subject Himself, His moral commands are revealed by subjects.
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ShucksNiceToMeetYou
ShucksNiceToMeetYou@Whilfrith·
@limitandmind Richard Dawkins sort of gave the game away when he said something to the effect of, if God Himself were to appear before him and speak, he would believe instead it was aliens using advanced technology to play a trick on him.
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Christopher R Taylor
Christopher R Taylor@KestrelArts·
@limitandmind I have started off asking them what they would consider evidence, to save time. Usually they don't answer.
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Limit and Mind | Know the Times
@Electrikhan_ Many don’t. They’ll rage, call me worthless, ask me why I don’t have a PhD in <whatever_point_they_want_to_make>, or say I’m basically a child for believing these things. I’m a super small account. That I got more likes than I have followers shows that I’m over the target.
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Electrikhan
Electrikhan@Electrikhan_·
@limitandmind They dont want a discussion, they want to be correct or at the least you to be wrong.
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Douche WatchDog
Douche WatchDog@Fido26424283·
@limitandmind @SteveSyme1 You are claiming God exists in reality. Not as a concept. Not as an idea. So if you want to prove that you will need empirical factual evidence that he exists in reality
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