@No1_ImPoRtAn7 Yes I had initially been surprised by the Army going 6.8 vs 6.5. It seems the slightly wider 6.8 bullet really helps with the swept bore volume and results in much better short barrel performance vs 6.5.
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Gatnerd
137 posts
Gatnerd
@gatnerd
Firearms and military nerd commentary.
USA Tham gia Haziran 2026
97 Đang theo dõi260 Người theo dõi
@gatnerd At 500m the Federal Peak 6.5 Creedmoor looks the same out of a 20" barrel so that is impressive out of a 16" barrel but most 6.5 creed moor rounds are under 1 MOA compared to 6.8's 4MOA...
federalpremium.com/65-creedmoor-p…
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6.8x51 NGSW Ballistics - .357 Energy at 1000yd
The combination of the 80kpsi High Pressure Case with a Very Low Drag projectile results in impressive long range performance.
While I think this is way too much for a standard issue rifle, it will be a tremendous LMG round.
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@rosenritter1958 Even more absurd in the face of High Pressure 5.56 and 6mm ARC coming online, as well as FN's .264 LICC. 6.8 only made sense in the context of the magnum sniper battle rifle armor buster.
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XM8 + 25 rounders + XM157 getting supplanted + new potential "lightweight ammo", really just inching away from the cheat-DMR that NGSW-R was envisioned as, back towards the M4...
Man, even I wasn't this bearish about the M7's fate when the XM8 originally showed up
Amaël Kotlarski@JakOSpades
Confirmed with SIG and US Army programme officers. The M7 is dead. All production for NGSW-R will be switched over to the XM8 going forward. Delivered M7s (approx 50 k delivered) will eventually be replaced by the M8 down the line.
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@JakOSpades Would love to see a comparison of the EVOLYS vs the SIG M250, both being the sort of 'next gen' of lightweight LMG.
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The 🇫🇷 Army is the first large scale customer for Evolys. Out of the 5,000 on order, 2/3 will be in 7.62 mm. No comment on the qty of Mk3 7.62s being also acquired.
Amaël Kotlarski@JakOSpades
🇫🇷 order for Evolys finally in.
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@FormerDirtDart A bummer they stopped investigating it, given how LSAT ended up failing.
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@gatnerd I read a bunch of stuff on that program years ago, and then nothing more
Seems to have just vanished when they started new research into caseless & cased telescoped ammo with LSAT
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既存のマガジン使えんし、モアパワーが話題なのに微妙やろ
Gatnerd@gatnerd
Knox High Efficiency Cartridge = 5.56 Using High Pressure, they were able to duplicate 5.56 ballistics in a much smaller round, allowing for 50rd magazines and 30% less ammo weight. A much more interesting option than making legacy calibers more powerful.
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@azide_enjoyer They list a variety of powders tested, but in sort of code names. Perhaps possible to deduce from these specs?
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@gatnerd Interested to see what powder they're using, almost certainly not something common. High nitroglycerin/nitroguanidine content or doped with something like RDX. There are a bunch of higher energy density smokeless powder formulas but they're not exactly available for purchase.
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@sgtrudy0311 @hbjjworks The Knox is 1/2 the diameter of the 5.56. So a 30rd 5.56 mag could theoretically hold as many as 60rd in the same length; I chose 50rd to be conservative.
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@hbjjworks @gatnerd How are you getting 50rds of that in a 30rd mag?
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@D_E_Harris_Best Yes, thats certainly a possibility, likely even. A starting point might be a stretched version of the 4.6x30, designed around 5mm VLD projectiles. Would allow 40rd mags.
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@gatnerd Wrong. We need barrier and armor penetration. Not more capacity.
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@Sterben1031 Berger used to make a superb VLD 55gr .204, with a G7 BC of 0.182 (vs 0.152 for 62gr 5.56). Something like that but with the lead free steel tip EPR, is what I had in mind. grafs.com/catalog/produc…
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@David_13_x i've thought very similar but with 5.7x28, just a micro CIWS
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I’m going to say it again. Downside the CRAM to .17HMR and put them on trucks
Gatnerd@gatnerd
Anti-Drone 5.56 NSWC Crane’s ‘Drone Killer Cartridge’, designed to break into 3 pieces to create a mini shotgun effect for better hit probability against drones. Range better than the previous saboted BB designs, at the expense of having less close range spread.
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@Sterben1031 Well, the Knox is just what we have as an example of "narrowmaxxing" for magazine capacity optimization. A more practical starting off point might be a cartridge based on the case head size of the 4.6x30, stretched to like x45, firing a 5mm VLD projectile while having 40rd mags.
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@gatnerd Frankly I think straightwall cases are a horrible usage of the tech, bottleneck all the way with this stuff. While I don't find 5.7x28 very exciting, high pressure 224 Boz could be interesting, or even something akin to 22 Spitfire. Breaking 4k FPS could make SCHV real as well.
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@D_E_Harris_Best Up to me? A sort of SCAR/Ultimax 100 constant recoil assault rifle that could pair ultra controllable FA fire with the 50rd magazines and the oversize bolt of the SCAR.
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@gatnerd Right, but steel casings also come with their own issues.
What sort of rifle is meant to run this round?
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@Helvegen29 No one wants to pay the cost to be the boss I suppose. Is anyone advertising DPICM cluster shells, now that they have returned post-Ukraine?
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@BrandonFDW Reminds me of the Suitcase Rifle from the movie "The Long Kiss Goodnight" (1996)
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@D_E_Harris_Best Probably not, just because we haven't really seen polymer regular cases be truly perfected even at regular pressures, much less the ~100kpsi this would run. But steel would be lighter then brass, and combined with the narrow case it would be very light.
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@gatnerd Can it be done with polymer cases, thus reducing weight further?
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@UberSoldat1025 That's my take as well, mag capacity is one of the few frontiers left.
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Fitting more bullets in the same size magazine is one of the only places to improve modern small arms
Other wise they’re light enough, reliable enough, accurate enough, lethal enough, that it’s not worth adopting any new system
Gatnerd@gatnerd
Knox High Efficiency Cartridge = 5.56 Using High Pressure, they were able to duplicate 5.56 ballistics in a much smaller round, allowing for 50rd magazines and 30% less ammo weight. A much more interesting option than making legacy calibers more powerful.
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@Sterben1031 I'm hoping to bring it back now that High Pressure Cases are coming online.
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