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@johnwcbragg
Did some things. and some stuff.
Wherever you go, there you are انضم Ekim 2011
327 يتبع160 المتابعون
@TrueSlazac Ironically, the original electoral college system would work pretty well for picking a European Union president.
"Electors get 2 votes each, must pick from 2 different countries. If no one has a majority, [EU organ TBD] picks from the top 3 finishers"
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Arguing about the electoral college is a baffling experience because none of the arguments people have against the popular vote is addressed by the electoral college, it's like they don't understand how their system works
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@JohnRintz @MN_Vikings_Pete @TrueSlazac Governors are elected by popular vote. Do they only campaign in big cities, or do they campaign across the state?
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@MN_Vikings_Pete @TrueSlazac Notice how diverse all these regions are. If this was the popular vote it would be 10x worse, like I already said. Your map would be Houston, vs LA, vs Chicago, vs New York
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@FDRHiker @SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki "You are insane if you think the popular vote is tyranny"
Well I don't...
" but not a system that allows someone who can get millions fewer vote to win isn’t"
...it's not tyranny. It's a janky, clunky system that's subject to a misfire, but it's not tyranny.
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@johnwcbragg @SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki You are insane if you think the popular vote is tyranny but not a system that allows someone who can get millions fewer vote to win isn’t.
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There's no good civic argument for the electoral college. It was arguably necessary to ensure the ratification of the Constitution, but it's an anti-democratic device that gives some American citizens far more voting power than others, based purely on where they live.
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@FDRHiker @SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki "It allows the minority to have tyranny over the majority."
That's a pretty hyperbolic way to describe a system once in a while awarding the presidency to the candidate with 48.5% over the candidate with 49.7%.
As the protesters pointed out, he's a President not a king.
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@SaveTheLibs @johnwcbragg @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki It allows the minority to have tyranny over the majority. This alone makes it on of the worst systems in the world.
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@SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki you want to tell me the electoral college is better than the alternative, because a national popular vote would pretty much require a complete federal takeover of elections?
now you're talking about real things that happen on planet Earth.
now you have my interest.
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@SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki "it ain't broke don't fix it is a much better defense than anything else the EC defenders roll out, but they roll out everything else first, which leads everyone else's suspect they only like the EC because it let their guy win once.
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@BeaviSNoches @stevemorris__ are you confusing the electoral college with the Senate?
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@stevemorris__ The real problem is people (usually intentionally) trying to straw man this antiquated and now irrelevant reason for the original structure of the EC to pretend the critical part that balances State sovereignty with population can just be waived away.. When it can't.
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There's an interesting argument for the original electoral college - one in which elites pick a president and Americans do not vote. I don't agree but it's at least interesting. The problem is zero people today actually support that - they support a system that the writers of the Constitution would be absolutely baffled to hear about
James Surowiecki@JamesSurowiecki
There's no good civic argument for the electoral college. It was arguably necessary to ensure the ratification of the Constitution, but it's an anti-democratic device that gives some American citizens far more voting power than others, based purely on where they live.
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@SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki 1. The 20th amendment was ratified 1933, nearly a century after William Henry Harrison died.
you are reaching reaching reaching for reasons to justify.
2. "it ain't broke don't fix it" is hands down the best defense of the EC. but in 2 of the last 7, it broke.
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@johnwcbragg @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki It’s one reason.
William Henry Harrison died days after taking office. The Constitution was amended to make Inauguration Day closer to Election Day.
EC is a classic case of if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
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@ScienceWhats @dsawyer the point of a limited-democracy system is that the elites, the "deep state" if you will, are smarter than the masses.
you only get a Trump, like him or not, from raw unfiltered democracy.
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@ScienceWhats @dsawyer in 2015, did Trump have any support from anyone in politics?
no. he was seen as a joke candidate, not a serious presidential contender, until he started winning direct-democracy type primaries.
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Dude says: "There is no good civics argument [for this] anti-democratic device."
Me: **looks at the history of democracies** I think you just made the case there, dude. The reason we have Republics with limited democracy is that there is no semantic gap between "true democracy" and "mob rule."
James Surowiecki@JamesSurowiecki
There's no good civic argument for the electoral college. It was arguably necessary to ensure the ratification of the Constitution, but it's an anti-democratic device that gives some American citizens far more voting power than others, based purely on where they live.
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@SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki so the EC is good because they might pick a president if the president-elect dies between 1st Tuesday Nov and 2nd Monday Dec?
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@johnwcbragg @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki If the winner dies between Election Day and elector day, the electors would choose a replacement. Can’t redo the whole process.
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@LeftistTexanist @Madhaterproject @dsawyer Yes, pot meet kettle.
The EC's current fans are fans because it elected Trump.
but if you do the least bit of investigation, the arguments in favor of something like the EC is that it would stop somebody like Trump who had zero support in 2015 from the elites
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@Madhaterproject @johnwcbragg @dsawyer Pot, meet kettle.
The biggest proponents of NOT abolishing the EC are entirely outcome-based.
"Ohh the small farmers!"
You guys will let every small farmer in CA & NY suck big donkey balls so that you can keep your built-in advantage.
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@johnwcbragg @dsawyer No it doesn't. That's what the constitution is for.
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@CarloFerlauto @MichaelFKane funny how the electoral college doesn't do any of the things that it was supposed to do in the federal papers
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What’s humorous is that the people so against the Electoral College never read the debate for and against in The Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers…
Which goes to show you exactly why we need to have an Electoral College.
They say that ignorance is bliss, but having strong opinions about something they’ve never even researched simply goes to show you how many happy people there are.
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There are no good arguments for the electoral college when you ignore all the good ones.
Funny how that works.
James Surowiecki@JamesSurowiecki
There's no good civic argument for the electoral college. It was arguably necessary to ensure the ratification of the Constitution, but it's an anti-democratic device that gives some American citizens far more voting power than others, based purely on where they live.
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@SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki just re-read it
a lot of Fed 68 applies to the pre 1968 convention system for choosing nominees.
but none of it applied to the EC, ever.
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@SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki yeah the electoral college as it existence doesn't do any of the things that it was supposed to do in fabulous 68
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@sensiblemoderat @HedgeDirty yeah we have a reasonably good data set from statewide elections.
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@johnwcbragg @HedgeDirty There are orders of magnitude more gettable moderates than Hizbollah-pilled leftists
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The electoral college is the second most moderating structural feature in American politics (the most moderating being corporate lobbying). The presifent is picked by the middle 10% of the middle ~8 states. It makes the median voter theorem more rather than less true
James Surowiecki@JamesSurowiecki
There's no good civic argument for the electoral college. It was arguably necessary to ensure the ratification of the Constitution, but it's an anti-democratic device that gives some American citizens far more voting power than others, based purely on where they live.
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@markstwatter2 @grok @razibkhan @L0m3z which would be more meritorious if he were an actual doctor and not just a well meaning amateur lol
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@johnwcbragg @grok @razibkhan @L0m3z LoliRapist88 actually does charity plastic surgery work for acid attack and burn victims.
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