@Jeremy_Zilber @TheConnorPils @ahkmabad Fully understand
That’s not what one single part of this discussion is about
It’s about interference before runner even got to the bag. Nothing else remotely matters
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Kevin Bergman
10.5K posts
@Kberg43 @TheConnorPils @ahkmabad Do you understand that the moment a runner on first makes contact with second base after a walk, he must then remain in contact with the base until time is called or there’s a dead ball? Do you understand he can be tagged out if he loses contact with the base?
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Absolutely and positively RIDICULOUS. I don’t care what the fine print says — this is NOT how replay review was intended to be used, nor is this in the spirit of the rule whatsoever.
Common sense needs to be brought back to baseball.
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@TwoHeadGoat_ @BeuckelaereJohn @AlexHossfeld @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN Completely incorrect
It doesn’t matter if PCA wanted to cartwheel into 2nd, he can do whatever he wants on a free base. The base is his to take unimpeded
It is not legal for a defensive player to impede on a free base. Period. Without peril
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@Kberg43 @BeuckelaereJohn @AlexHossfeld @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN That’s not illegal. Thats because of his doing and is on him
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Might be one of the worst calls in MLB history. How are can you be thrown out on a ball 4?
SNY@SNYtv
Pete Crow-Armstrong is ruled out at second base after initially contacting second base and losing possession of the base. Crow-Armstrong had initially advanced to second base on a walk. Cubs manager Craig Counsell has been ejected.
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@Jeremy_Zilber @TheConnorPils @ahkmabad No, because 2nd is the free base. 3rd is not
Do you know what a walk is?
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@Kberg43 @TheConnorPils @ahkmabad If this were the case then if a fielder happens to be standing in front of 2nd base on a walk, the runner has the right to jog to second, go around the fielder to step on 2nd, then run to 3rd, and if he’s tagged on the way to 3rd it’s “obstruction” at 2nd and he gets to go back.
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@BeuckelaereJohn @AlexHossfeld @TwoHeadGoat_ @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN He was stopped. The glove prevented his hands from touching the bag cleanly, which led to coming off the base
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@Kberg43 @AlexHossfeld @TwoHeadGoat_ @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN The fielder has every right to tag him. That’s not impeding his route, nor does it matter bc like you yourself said…. You can’t be impeded on a free base. Unless he attempted to advance and was stopped or altered his route, it’s not obstruction.
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@BeuckelaereJohn @AlexHossfeld @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN “Without liability to be put out”, often referred to as “without peril” is the exact terminology on a free base.
It’s means they are awarded the base unimpeded. If they are not allowed to access that base unimpeded it would be in violation of that rule
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@Kberg43 @AlexHossfeld @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN There is no violation. Cite the rule that says this specifically. The rulebook and casebook make it clear there is no violation. You can’t just say that bc you want him to be safe and it’s an odd play.
Again, maybe they could adjust the rule, that’s fair. But they got it right
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@CoachKwall31 @Theadventu87167 @RealMetsFanClub Again, I already said by rule it’s not obstruction
You have to allow unimpeded access to the base on a walk. Runner cannot be impeded in any way. You’re just ignoring that and throw out rules that don’t apply to this situation
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@Kberg43 @Theadventu87167 @RealMetsFanClub Fielder was in possession of the baseball, no obstruction.
PCA didn’t maintain contact with the base
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There wasn't a player on the field, in the dugout, or anyone in the stadium that wasn't confused about the ruling on this play. And for us loyal Mets fans watching this 9-6 loss at home on TV, the confusion consisted of "why am I watching this game?". #LGM
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@BeuckelaereJohn @AlexHossfeld @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN He was blocked from reaching the bag cleanly
Correct, you cannot be impeded on a free base. Defender did impede, therefore it’s a violation.
By rule it is not “obstruction” because obstruction doesn’t apply in any free base scenario. It’s still a violation though
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@Kberg43 @AlexHossfeld @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN You just said it. You cannot be impeded on a free base😂
After you touch the bag it’s no longer free
You just proved me right.
You’re wrong by every single metric here my man. I’ve also been an ump for 10+ years and was trained at the south eastern Michigan umpire school.
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@Jeremy_Zilber @TheConnorPils @ahkmabad If that was on a stolen base, yes, he was out. He did not beat the tag. Clearly out
The issue is it was not a steal, it was a walk. You cannot impede a runner from taking a free base. That’s exactly what the defender did
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@Kberg43 @TheConnorPils @ahkmabad It seems you’re saying you know the rule says he’s out but the umpires should have ignored the rule to be more fair. If a guy is ducking out of the way of a pitch and his bat happens to contact the ball, are they supposed to start ignoring the contact because it’s not fair?
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@CoachKwall31 @Theadventu87167 @RealMetsFanClub This rule has nothing to do with the play
The issue is he was impeded getting to the bag. On a walk.
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@BeuckelaereJohn @AlexHossfeld @TwoHeadGoat_ @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN Wrong. Watch the replay. Glove was down on his hands before he reached the bag. He was forced to adjust based on that. Gloves also prevent his trailing hand from getting to the base, which is why he came off the base
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@Kberg43 @AlexHossfeld @TwoHeadGoat_ @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN You’re making the mistake of him being impeded getting to the base. He was not at all. He slid on his own power, touched the bag (by default couldn’t have been impeded plus impeding doesn’t matter unless he was trying to advance and he was not).
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@AlexHossfeld @BeuckelaereJohn @TwoHeadGoat_ @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN If the defender is allowed to tag, PCA should be able to avoid the tag as well
If ABS reviews and calls strike, he’s out 100%
If it’s confirmed a ball, he was impeded getting to the base
I’m fine changing the call with either situation
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@Kberg43 @BeuckelaereJohn @TwoHeadGoat_ @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN With ABS everyone has to act like it's a strike until proven otherwise anyways. So the fielder should absolutely try to tag him because if the ball is overturned to a strike then it'd be a caught stealing.
It's just a situation Pete needs to say on the bag. Simple as that.
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@carterfogarty24 @Elijosss @StevePalazzolo_ I think you misunderstood. You cannot be touched at all on a free base in any way to impede the runner. That’s exactly what use the defender did
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@Kberg43 @Elijosss @StevePalazzolo_ He wasn’t tagged out of a free base. He was tagged out after leaving 2nd base.
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What does this go down as, caught stealing trying to steal third?
Foul Territory@FoulTerritoryTV
Pete Crow-Armstrong attempted to steal on ball four and gets ruled out because he lost possession of second base on the slide. Craig Counsell was ejected after review.
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@Super_Dave @joelthemingway @chicago_sean20 @ThienemanSZN It’s not obstruction. By rule cannot be obstruction since defender had possession on a live ball
At the same time, a defender cannot impede a runner on a free base, which he clearly did. The intent of the players doesn’t matter. Ball 4 was called, free base unimpeded
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@Kberg43 @joelthemingway @chicago_sean20 @ThienemanSZN Embarrassing you keep calling for obstruction when he in fact reached the base. Placing a tag on him prior to the bag on a play both assumed was live is never going to be obstruction no matter how many times you repeat yourself. You're wrong and will always be wrong.
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@freedomatters22 @TheInsiderKevin As a cubs fan I actually disagree
I think PCA was clearly thrown out in a normal non walk instance. He was tagged before he got to the base
The issue is that it’s a walk. You cannot impede a runner on a free base. The short stop absolutely impeded. That’s a violation
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I don’t 1 shit about the context. The batter walked. If the guy going to second come of the bag for a millisecond it doesn’t matter. His 1st hand beat the fucking throw. Therefore, the baseman beat the throw. The catcher lost period. This holding the tag nonsense is for participation trophy pansies out there. The runner beat your throw. Coming off the bag for a fraction of second needs to be eliminated from baseball.
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Because he wasn’t thrown out. He was tagged out after coming off the bag he was entitled to take. It should be very simple to understand. The same exact way a walked batter can immediately try to take second after reaching first. Walks aren’t dead balls.
ThienemanSZN🇺🇸🇳🇱@ThienemanSZN
Might be one of the worst calls in MLB history. How are can you be thrown out on a ball 4?
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@BeuckelaereJohn @AlexHossfeld @TwoHeadGoat_ @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN You guys don’t like the Cubs. That’s fine, but it’s clouding reality
You can’t block a base on a free base. Period. Nothing else after that matters. Yes, he passed the base, yes he was tagged out in the process. He wasn’t given a free path to the base, that’s the issue
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@BeuckelaereJohn @AlexHossfeld @1TommEBoi @ThienemanSZN How was he not? Defender blocked the base with his glove on a free base. That’s clear as day
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@CoachKwall31 @KolidaPaul @ScoringChanges Catcher didn’t have to throw on ball 4. Pitcher didn’t have to throw ball. Fielder didn’t have to block the base on a walk
You can’t say on one hand PCA shouldn’t have slid while simultaneously saying the defense should try and pick off a walk. Both are equally ridiculous
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@Kberg43 @KolidaPaul @ScoringChanges PCA didn’t have to slide, since he was given a free base per the result of the pitch. He slid because he was committed to the SB attempt on the pitch.
Same goes for the fielders. They’re allowed to defend against SB attempts & throw the baseball around during live play.
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You are correct as long as he doesn’t go PAST the base. Remember this where George Springer was very silly going to second on a walk? He was stealing on this play I’m pretty sure.
He was completely safe from being tagged. However if he went AROUND or PAST the base, he could be tagged out.
Robert Stock@RobertStock6
Interesting situation where intentionally NOT touching the base would ensure your safety.
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@CoachKwall31 @Theadventu87167 @RealMetsFanClub PCA 100% stays on base if fielder isn’t there. Not even debatable.
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@Kberg43 @Theadventu87167 @RealMetsFanClub The fielder didn’t forcefully remove PCA from the base. And if HP had called strike 3, PCA’s out on the throw & tag.
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@Jeremy_Zilber @TheConnorPils @ahkmabad What an idiotic interpretation of what he said
The issue is PCA doesn’t come off bag if the defender didn’t block it. He clearly impeded him on a base that was supposed to be free. Period.
I know it’s not obstruction by rule, but he’s safe if defender isn’t blocking base
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@TheConnorPils @ahkmabad So if a guy is heading to a base and the ball beats him by several feet but he somehow manages to elude the tag by a half inch thanks to a crazy acrobatic slide, should he be called out because the “spirit of the rule” says he’s out even if he’s “technically” safe?
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@Theadventu87167 @RealMetsFanClub Issue isn’t the ruling by definition, that’s clear
Can make an argument defender caused him to come off bag. Contacted runner before he got to base and “forced” him off
By the book not obstruction, but impeding a runner on a walk is certianly a confusing grey area
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@RealMetsFanClub If you touch a base and then leave the base …you are no longer on the base and can be tagged . Why is this hard ?
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