Jonathan Davis

The bible says God created the universe through Jesus, that Jesus is the exact imprint of his nature, and then became flesh. He always was, but was given a name that had been prepared for him from the beginning, with hints even recorded in Genesis 1 and 3. Genesis 1, in the beginning God spoke saying, "Let there be light." For the first time in all physical history, God -a transcendent and all powerful being- spoke to a blop of dark potential matter and mass that had a form like water saying, "Let there be Light." God not only made his presence directly known to a super cosmic void, the making of his presence at all brought a type of energy and force that the material blob had never experienced before.. sonoluminescense is cool here because we can use it's principles as a potential analog. Genesis 3, the curse to satan that through the woman's "seed," which later passages expand the meaning of "seed" to include reproductive material like sperm, not just lineage, which means in Genesis 3, seed could be seen as an oocyte by modern understandings. God knew the specific oocyte that he would use for his body way back in the garden. Redemption was his mission not his purpose. His purpose is to reveal the full glory of God; which is done through the redemption and restoration purchased through the cross. It sounds like im just trying to argue a small thing, but the distinction that Jesus's purpose was redemption vs Jesus's purpose is to reveal the full glory of God is important.

@DrFrankTurek God cares about comfort to a degree but a call to hardship is a call to hardship. Comfort is temporary. Growth and work is uncomfortable.

Does God care more about our comfort or our character?

If we are only just discovering relics and whatnot from the 1st century israel under modern day Israel, and around or less than 1% of ancient egypt is even uncovered; i dont think you can say there is extensive evidence exodus didnt happen. Saying there are creation stories older than genesis misses the point.

• There was no first human. • Adam & Eve were fictional characters in an entirely mythical story. • There are creation stories older than the Genesis creation myth. • There is no evidence for the biblical Exodus from ancient Egypt, but there is extensive evidence that this Exodus never happened. If the story of Moses and his people leaving Egypt is even plausible, Israeli historians and scholars would almost universally consider it proven, yet that is not the case. • The existence of Noah and his Ark will never be confirmed, because there was never, in all human history, a 𝗚𝗟𝗢𝗕𝗔𝗟 𝗙𝗟𝗢𝗢𝗗 that covered the tops of the mountains. Much of the Christian world no longer believes Genesis 1 and 2 as a literal account of creation. Some Christians believe that the Bible creation stories should be taken literally. This means that the biblical accounts are to be taken as fact, i.e that God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh, and that no alternative or scientific theory is considered. The Catholic Church teaches that the Bible accounts and stories have to be understood within the time that they were written. The authors of the biblical books had limited knowledge of science and the world, so the Genesis account was their way of trying to explain what they believed. The Catholic Church interprets the Genesis account alongside science and reason to try and understand the key message – that God is responsible for the creation of the world. Science may be able to explain how the universe was created, but the Church teaches that religion explains the reason it was created.

Anyone with children know that they are inquisitive by nature and have no problem asking questions or challenging new information. To become like little children isnt to become naive, gullible, or dumb. The fact that children are gullible is a slight against the person fooling a child, not the child. The concept of becoming like a child is to become like a child who trusts their parents no matter what. Children dont seek to rebel against their authority or rules; they just exist and are exploring life to the best of their abilities. They mess up, but it is with a certain innocence and grace different than a later teen or adult. To be born again by the spirit opens your eyes what God has done and is doing; it does not mean blanket accept everything any "christian" tells you.

@LogosFunction @Machi1Nne What is the difference in what you said and what she said?

Born Again means Reducing your Thinking ability to that of a toddler to be able to accept deception without Arguments.

Churches refusing to do communion regularly. "We do it when we can, but at least quarterly." Meanwhile in the bible: "for as often as they gathered, they broke bread.." Meanwhile in the Didache ​"But every Lord's day do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure." (Didache 14:1)

@marcusbrown So wild how that changed isn’t it

Unpopular pastoral opinion #4 Church is for Christians not unbelievers,for the edification of faith through the ministry of the word, sacraments and genuine fellowship It is not for evangelism or “seekers” Confusing these two things has been a huge L for the visible church

Light was created in the earth which was void and without form where darkness was upon the face of the deep. The "earth" can only be described as void and dark if there is an outside light to determine that the void is dark. Light (the greater cosmic light and source of light) comes from God.

So God was living in darkness before he created light ? 😀🤪

You trust them without any way to tell you if they are lying or actually giving you real information. You dont follow up to see what gets quietly redacted 10-20+ years later or even longer. Physical time and historical time do not align. Physical time (i.e. radiometric dating, natural earth cycles, etc) are incredibly hard and destructive towards historical time (human records). 4k years is a really long time for destroying and distorting any physical evidence of humanity.

"There are a wide range of skull shapes today, not even including from people with birth defects or abnormalities. Humans have speciated and evolved to some degrees, no one can deny that; but not to a level of humans evolving from a common ancestor to monkeys/apes. " I literally just showed you some. "Bone fragments can recreate skulls yes, but always being able to identify a human skull from monkey is not always easy. Not including times where people fused monkey bones to human bones to pass off as a transitional fossil." Yeah, it's difficult. Because we're related. But the people identifying these things know more about how to tell the differences than you or I do.

To mirror my previous post. Of course evolution has taken place, denying it makes you look like a fool. Does this in any way, shape or form force you to deny that God exists? Of course not! Evolution is one of the best supported scientific theories in all of human history!

I think of those passages that allude to stars and the sun being more significant than humans realize. I.e. legends of angels being in charge over suns, the suns having a form of sentience in themselves (modern plasma, information, and electromagnetic theory research is interesting here). But the bible says God knows them all by name while name dropping a few ancient constellations such as​ Pleiades, Orion, and others. Yet I'm sure you can find somewhere online today where you can pay money and have a star named after you or a loved one with a lil certificate and all 😆 I like in a way recent talks of everything being conciousness and conciousness being the foundation of everything. For after all, God is the concious mind that started everything, sustains everything, and will guide all things to the final conclusion where He comes to live among us as King; right? Before the universe was, God is, and we were in the mind of God, and now we are in the mind of God and with God; through his son who died and rose for us, and in full.

@LogosFunction @SpeedWatkins @Pirroli_ It's also noteworthy how this little speck can think about the world and to know what reason can and cannot say about it

It is an invalid inference from "each member of the set is dependent" to "the whole set is dependent." That's the fallacy of composition. Every silly goose in the flock has a mother (per accidens), but it does not follow that the flock also has a mother (per se).

I know enough to tell the difference between real science and pseudoscientific wishful thinking. There are a wide range of skull shapes today, not even including from people with birth defects or abnormalities. Humans have speciated and evolved to some degrees, no one can deny that; but not to a level of humans evolving from a common ancestor to monkeys/apes. In the Genesis 2 narrative, the search for a "suitable helper" among the animals highlights a fundamental gap between humanity and the rest of creation. While primates share physical similarities with humans, the text suggests that no animal (regardless of intelligence or similarities), could provide the specific spiritual and social partnership Adam required. Humans have always been unique and set apart from animals. Fish and birds were created on day 5, but animals on day 6 along with humans. Each day is not an exact 24 hr window, but it's a sequence and an order. God breathed life into humans; he didn't do that to any other creature. God made us in his imade, and God is not an animal. Bone fragments can recreate skulls yes, but always being able to identify a human skull from monkey is not always easy. Not including times where people fused monkey bones to human bones to pass off as a transitional fossil.

@LogosFunction @LatFilosof What do you know about osteology? Skull shapes can be reconstructed from sufficient fragments. There's a science to this. Stop talking on subjects you don't understand

@AtheistPhoenix Jesus was a rabbi not a criminal. His execution was highly controversial and his burial in the tomb was a means of the officials to ensure no strange happenings or foul play. Jesus was killed at the behest of the sanhedrin, not because he broke a roman law.

There was no tomb Fantasy No crucified criminals were put in tombs

@KingOfSalt4 @LatFilosof Fragments of skulls are not as conclusive as youd think

@LogosFunction @LatFilosof Come again?

"When we tried to define what an animal is." So we started with the premise that humans are animals because we see correlations? Obviously but my point being towards man constructed classifications vs God's classifications. Mankind was made from the dust, atoms, not evolved from animals. By modern definitions of mammals yes, humans are mammalian. Just because things are similar does not mean they are directly related. Animals and humans can be related without humans being animals.

@LogosFunction When we tried to define what an animal is. Biologists looked at all the animals we could find and saw what they all had in common such that a definition wouldn't arbitrarily exclude something. Do you accept that you are a mammal?

@LatFilosof When did animal become defined by being a multicellular eukaryotic organism again? These are ultimately human constructed models and classifications, right?

@LogosFunction A bunch of atoms yes. Biologically we are animals, because an animal is a heterotrophic multicellular eukaryotic organism. You are those things, therefore you are an animal. You may disagree on some other metric, but biologically you are an animal.

Think in terms of expanding fractals. It parallels and rhymes, it doesnt exactly copy. There are jews today in israel desperately trying to keep the torah as best they can and are looking to rebuild the temple so they can sacrifice again. There are christians following correctly in various ways all the same and looking forward to the second coming. Look for parallels, like the rise and fall of the nation of israel and the rise and fall of the church age.

@LogosFunction That's one of the things I'm not sure about in terms of timing. In the OT, the remnant was faithful Jews who maintained the sacrificial system etc. That doesn't seem to make sense now, after Christ. So what is the remnant? What would be the purpose of a temple?

The children of Noah were born and alive during the lifespans of people who knew and likely directly talked with Adam and Eve. Noah was alive almost to the birth of Abraham, with some traditions saying they did live together at some point although most accounts are that Noah died just before Abraham was born. Adam was not generations removed Noah, nor was Abraham generations removed from Noah. These people just lived incredibly long lives. The information and knowledge of God and the pre-flood world was preserved, although distorted. The earth may look old scientifically, but by generations the earth is not billions of years old. The universe is not billions of years old. Humans are just arrogant thinking we know our heads from our feet just because we do big things as small fragile creatures. We deny the foundational reason for why we are capable of such things: that we are made in the image of God.

@LatFilosof Correlation doesn't equal causation? We are all floating atomic particles in the void of space, arent we?

@LogosFunction Oh, I guess you aren’t a multicellular eukaryotic organism then.

This has always been portrayed as a fault of humanity tho, not God. The bible shows that even in the church, hierarchies naturally emerge and a form of slave/master relationship emerges. The jewish leaders during the day of Jesus were often idolized as being symbols of religious perfection, yet Jesus called them hypocrites. That is the whole point of becoming a slave of Christ instead. Everyone serves someone or something else. Rather serve the Lord and let him give to you according to his blessings.

While Christians historically (or according to the Bible) believed slaves and masters were equal in their churches, they rarely argued for equality in society.

The bible says that women went to go finish the burial rites of Jesus after the double sabbath holiday weekend and when they got there, all the guards were as if they were asleep or gone, there possibly was an earthquake or an aftershock of the mega quake that just happened 3 days earlier, the stone was rolled away, a figure of light appeared on the stone, the tomb was discovered empty except for the burial shroud. Then it's reported that a woman saw him first, and these women believed first before the actual disciples. Only then do the disciples come and see for themselves. This is not insignificant. In ancient cultures, reporting that women discovered the tomb and believed first would be highly embarrassing. In fabrications, then men would have discovered it first or been focused on. Before Jesus's final ascension to heaven at the great commission, it's recorded that Jesus appeared to a multitude on the mountain at once. Perhaps what Paul references in 1 Corinthians 15, even if his 500 number is an exaggeration or over estimation? Acts records the final words of Jesus to his closest disciples as well, along with the immediate historical aftermath and early events of the church. The author of Acts is the same who wrote the book of Luke, and both must have been written before the deaths of Peter and Paul by wit that Acts records Paul being on house arrest in Rome (testified in non biblical letters from early writers/historians) yet records nothing of Peter in Rome or both their executions. The book of Acts records the martyrdom of Stephen and James, but not two of the biggest apostles? Unless they just hadnt happened yet or the author was unaware. If Acts and Luke were written early to mid 60s, that puts at least Mark and Matthew way earlier.

The fairy tale says that there were eyewitnesses to a fictional occurrence

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not always with the water baptism. It usually precedes and leads one to a water baptism. The Ethiopian believed before he asked to be baptized. The first gentile believed and was baptized by the holy spirit before the water. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is one of fire, not water. A fire for the Lord, a conviction of sins, a thirst for righteousness, and a longing to be close to the words and ways of the Lord, and a hope to the day of his return where he will make all things new.

@MarkJGrice The TOTC was on deaths door, hanging on a cross. He was a very rare exception as there was nothing else he could do at that point.

So Jesus was lying in Mark's Gospel when he said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved?

@badendave A remnant are always preserved, right? Jerusalem is and always will be the time clock. When the temple starts going up, a lot of heads and hearts will turn

@LogosFunction I remember hearing a preacher say "If God doesn't soon judge North America (and basically this goes for all of western culture) soon, He's going to owe Sodom and Gomorrah an apology". We are living in a civilizational moment. Will we decline, or correct course and restore?