Labyrinth Territory 🏴🍉

@Idkfu69 That the world and all phenomena including human consciousness are determined by the physical. Therefore all ideas are caused by their specific historical circumstances. It is a very useful mode of thinking especially when you want to explain history.

@9999XP What do you think materialists believe in?

Highly dangerous position. Immediately excludes (intentionally or not I don't care) anyone who does not work/is not part of a nebulous workers movement

Fatal Accident

Pursuit of the Head Doctor #jojolion #backrooms

Diving

@Idkfu69 I do think that ideas are influenced by the material. It's harder to be an anarchist without first seeing the idea of hierarchy manifested in the physical world for example. And of course people can be maliciously influenced by others to believe certain ideas.

@9999XP Ok, but where does this essence come from? How do you know it's their essence? You could just as easily argue that these things mean what they do because society has conditioned us to accept those words and definitions.

@Idkfu69 farfetched concept. We all have ideas every day, they influence how we see the world and interact with them. And we all have those moments when we think we were the first to think of something and then learn that someone else already came up with it. Therefore they are universal.

@Idkfu69 I am not a hardcore idealist either, more of a basic bitch dualist. I think that ideas and the physical world both exist. They influence and restrict each other. God is a very powerful idea for sure and Plato has been influential for christians. But I never saw ideas as such a

@Idkfu69 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of…

@9999XP Ok? But what proof do you have to support your idea?

@Idkfu69 It's essence does. Chair is "something to sit on". Democracy is "majority rule through voting" It can be a lot more complicated, but we are on twitter.

@9999XP Then what defines the idea if not its historical conditions?

@Idkfu69 Well I guess you are Aristoteles and I'm Plato.

@9999XP Actually material reality is essential

@Idkfu69 @MattCrossin @_Do0p @boguswaves1 Ideas are essential. We call all chairs chairs because we know what the word means. No one cares who made the first chair. If someone who has never seen a chair or doesnt know about its history makes a chair, it is still just a chair.

@9999XP @MattCrossin @_Do0p @boguswaves1 Yeah, but this isn’t a reality in which we live, nor does it seem like a possibility in the near future.

@Idkfu69 @_Do0p @boguswaves1 The essence of the idea of veganism is "don't eat animal products" anyone who follows these principles is a vegan. Their specific reasons don't matter. Anarchisms essence is "rejection of hierarchy". Anyone who follows it, even an alien in another galaxy, is an anarchist.

@9999XP @_Do0p @boguswaves1 That’s not a good comparison because veganism is generally a conscious lifestyle choice today, whereas someone in 3000 BC had to eat whatever was available in their environment. If they didn't consume animal products, that would likely reflect a lack of access more than anything.

@MattCrossin @Idkfu69 @_Do0p @boguswaves1 I really am more of an idealist than a materialist lol. The specific historical conditions am idea emerged in are fine and dandy, but they don't define the idea in all situations throughout all of space and time.

@MattCrossin @Idkfu69 @_Do0p @boguswaves1 In the future anarchism could be completely forgotten, deleted from all records then reinvented under a different term, but it would still be the same idea as anarchism.

@MattCrossin @Idkfu69 @_Do0p @boguswaves1 Well thank god these europeans invented being against capitalism and authority what would the world do without them.

@9999XP @Idkfu69 @_Do0p @boguswaves1 you are assuming anarchism is purely about it’s ultimate purpose (ie its goal), or at most reducible to underlying principles. It’s not. It is a specific historical movement and theory developed in the conditions of the European workers movement of the nineteenth century.

@MattCrossin @Idkfu69 @_Do0p @boguswaves1 I mean sure agree to disagree. But to me that is like being an atheist who only cares about the christian god, because he grew up in a christian place.

@9999XP @Idkfu69 @_Do0p @boguswaves1 Anarchism is opposed to those things, but isn’t reducible to that. It’s a specific analysis of the society that generated it as a movement & a set of strategies & organisational models for overcoming it. May as well call religions from before Christ with similarities ‘Christian’

@MattCrossin @Idkfu69 @_Do0p @boguswaves1 Capitalism isn't the only form of hierarchy. Or are anarchists not opposed to things like monarchy, theocracy or slavery? Even if the concept of hierarchy didn't exist, then everybody would be an anarchist. Just like everbody would be an atheist without religion.

@9999XP @Idkfu69 @_Do0p @boguswaves1 How could a specific analysis of capitalism and a particular set of organisational methods and strategies for overthrowing it exist prior to capitalism?

@VeganBitz @boguswaves1 Worker movements are fine, nothing against syndicalism. But it's important to see work as a negative. If you glorify it in order to win workers over or even discriminate against non-workers then you are on a path that upholds work as the standard of human productivity.

@9999XP @boguswaves1 I guess my point is: how will we obtain the goals of anarchy without a worker movement?