Andrew

@kardzyt The citation I sent is the position of St. Augustine!

@AndrewTheCalled Point out the difference between my citation and your citation because they are essentially verbatim read the last part of your own citation. You literally dont even know what the memes you have saved in your camera roll are saying this is so retarded.

I explicitly rejected PSA and Original Sin and vehemently opposed both teachings for awhile and both were part of my reasons as to why Orthodoxy was “unique”, but both of these are basics of the Apostolic Deposit and are TRUE. Willing to be corrected and to engage with anyone.

@kardzyt Well this catechism from the Greek patriarchate of Alexandria says otherwise…

1. no 2. no " This sin, which entered the world through the first man and became the cause of human death, is called the first sin or ancestral sin. By this first or ancestral sin, as applied to Adam and Eve, is meant both the sin itself and the sinful condition of their nature into which they entered as a result of that sin. In us, however, their descendants, the first or ancestral sin refers only to the sinful condition of our nature, with which and in which we are born." (georgian catechism) This is not augustinian original sin, which you just so foolishly said was Orthodox. When in fact Orthodoxy contradicts augustinian original sin in this very clear passsage.

@tovi_lord @OrthoBroGeorg @Silentmob701 Agreed, God is immutable and dispassionate. That doesn’t negate His wrath, which is his Holy and just opposition to sin. The perspective you have of the doctrine you are “opposing” is a false understanding. The Saints teach that Christ endured the torments we deserve.

@AndrewTheCalled @OrthoBroGeorg @Silentmob701 God does not experience anger or passions like humans do; he is immutable. Perfect justice is getting what one deserves. It would be immoral for God to kill an innocent Jesus. His death was self-sacrifice… an example for us. Recapitulation. Enlightenment. Baptism.

@OrthoBroGeorg @Silentmob701 @tovi_lord Love you bro, but there is not a single quote on here that says what you think it means and these are fully orthodox. God’s wrath is His real and just response to sin.

@AndrewTheCalled @Silentmob701 @tovi_lord Then all this legalistic payment nonsense falls completely apart and PSA is false. This would be PL(Larp)A. What's the Father's wrath against sinners though?

@kardzyt 1. Nobody outside of evangelical and some fringe Protestant pastors, believe that the father damned the Son. 2. Both of these positions are orthodox, and I have yet to see any evidence on the contrary from primary sources, other than modern reflections.

@AndrewTheCalled PSA and augustinian OS are not orthodox if you think the father damned the son that's antichrist

@OrthoBroGeorg @Silentmob701 @tovi_lord Damnation isn’t the only content of sin’s punishment. Death, wrath-bearing, and human desolation don’t require the Logos to be ontologically separated from the Father. Human nature bore what humanity deserved and Chalcedon preserves the distinction.

@AndrewTheCalled @Silentmob701 @tovi_lord PSA must mean damnation bc that's our punishment. You could try to escape this with nestorianism or like the latinizers by changing Christ's punishment, which makes it no longer PSA though. Do you know Fr. Stephen DeYoung already? youtu.be/JEltDidEFO4?is…

@OrthoBroGeorg @Silentmob701 @tovi_lord Westminster, Heidelberg, Belgic, Dort — none teach it. You’ve conflated popular preachers with formal confessions. ‘As one damned’ is analogical, not ontological. Anyabwile’s broken Trinity is genuinely heretical and most Reformed theologians would agree.

@AndrewTheCalled @Silentmob701 @tovi_lord Nobody wants to admit the implications the damnation of the Son has but they all teach/taught it and have it in their confessions. Just learn the basics, dude. catholicnick.blogspot.com/2009/04/was-je…

@mdkpmdkp W

@AndrewTheCalled Proverbs, Gospel of Luke

Happy Friday night 🫡 What’s everyone’s favorite book in the Holy Scriptures? 👇

@d_bahler @Nicholai_Korea @Craig_Truglia @Acolyte83349490 I agree that the convo about Original Sin seems to be a lot of talking past each other

Tbh I think most of the argument about original sin comes down to people thinking their opponents hold to things they do not There is this assumption on the part of some that everyone agrees with Romanides and Florvsky. This is not even remotely true I'm convinced the modernist label gets applied loosely and people acting like we are lock step with miss 20th century neopatristics when that's not even kind of true

Go talk to Fr. SDY and @Craig_Truglia @Acolyte83349490 we have dozens of clergy, Bishops who have done dissertations on how we dont hold to these things. It isnt difficult & frankly only reason one comes to this is they are building own theology by collecting quotes like Pokémon

@TheOBroShow Great questions! My experience has been great and I feel more firm in my faith given the truth of these doctrines in Orthodoxy. This is mainly a problem in the US, and it stems from those who want Orthodoxy to have its own full identity and remove any common ground with others

@AndrewTheCalled What has your experience been like since coming to PSA/Original Sin convictions as apostolic? Do you feel like a minority within that tradition or do you think the orthodox anti-PSA/ O.S., is a largely online demographic?

@blessedmikko Beautiful choices

@AndrewTheCalled OT: Ecclesiastes NT: Romans

@Magpie_Hunter Mannn the Epistles of St. John are so underrated

@AndrewTheCalled Gospel of St. John, the Epistles of St. John, Psalms and Tobit.

@Orthodoxxy_com Well.. this is from a catechism from the Greek Patriarchate of Alexandria

@AndrewTheCalled Russian Orthodoxy is off the rails on this subject. That is why they appeal to Slav catechisms to defend PSA. Proof of Latin captivity.

@OrthoBroGeorg @Silentmob701 @tovi_lord Outside of some evangelicals and reformed Baptist’s, nobody actually teaches damnation of the Son or destroying the Trinity… not Calvin/Luther or the theologians of their time

@AndrewTheCalled @Silentmob701 @tovi_lord Bc the damnation of the Son from the Father does nothing more than to destroy the Trinity. Maybe start by learning the Torah: youtu.be/TSQ4i0l85e0?is…

@OrthoBroGeorg Hey man! What about these quotes, has something with PSA missing from it? Outside of not using the actual full term.

@AndrewTheCalled @OrthodoxWario Have you checked the translations? Where does he say PSA and negate orthodox immanent salvation?

@De____Nile I respect it 🫡 those are my 2 favorite Gospels too

@AndrewTheCalled OT: Daniel, Wisdom NT: Revelation, John, Luke

@OrtiztheOther I see the perspective you are trying to take… but none of this is found in Calvin himself or any serious Calvinist theologians (Turretin, Owen, Bavinck, etc.) Saying that bc someone is “reformed” means they hold the same view of PSA as Calvin is a false equivalence.

@AndrewTheCalled Finally, there's the idea that the Holy Spirit was temporarily "veiled" from Christ, that He experienced all the tortures of condemnation to hell - including separation from God.

Alright everyone, I genuinely have this question: for this who deny Original Sin (w/ inherited non personal guilt) and PSA (Christ took our punishment to satisfy divine justice), on what basis are you doing so and how do you reconcile with an absurd amount of counter evidence?

@TheOrthoEnsign On it 🫡

@AndrewTheCalled Yeah so be Orthodox and affirm them.

@OrtiztheOther Also can you specifically point out a single teaching from Calvin’s institutes on PSA that is “unorthodox”

@OrtiztheOther By Calvinist theologians I mean those who actually have had an impact on their teachings in a manner that is binding on the faithful. Most of those pastors mentioned are baptists who aren’t a part of the traditional Calvinist camp that teaches infant baptism.