Crossface Killah

21.5K posts

Crossface Killah banner
Crossface Killah

Crossface Killah

@Crossface02

Catholic. Husband. Father. Strategist. Strangler. Lawful.

Katılım Aralık 2021
250 Takip Edilen4.2K Takipçiler
Clifton Hicks
Clifton Hicks@amanofthesoil·
"If trouble don't kill me, I'll live a long time..." played on original 1867 banjo
English
11
41
269
2.8K
Thusundi; Prince Ronan
@Crossface02 @Dungeoneerhere If you mean me, not hardly. I live in that part of Kentucky that’s that weird intersection of the South, the Midwest, and the Appalachians. My dad’s southern and my mom’s like a midwesterner, I guess.
English
1
0
1
20
John Pliskin
John Pliskin@JohnPliskin6·
@Crossface02 @NotJonMollison My best players irl have always been non gamer, non nerd types. A couple of dudes I boxed with, a couple of my brother's redneck friends, etc.
English
1
0
2
7
Mr. Wargaming
Mr. Wargaming@NotJonMollison·
D&D is satanic. There are ways to exorcise its demons and return it to its original purpose of bringing glory to God, but most of you aren't ready for that conversation.
Mr. Wargaming tweet media
Steve@sagacious_steve

@UnoriginalKoala 40 years ago you would have been saying DnD is satanic lmao

English
30
12
127
6.9K
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
Additionally, characters would improve over time in the campaign and gain "experience".
Crossface Killah@Crossface02

@Nobleshield What else would you call it when players take on the roles of characters who have attributes such as fighting ability, intelligence, charm, jealousy, attractiveness (and more), and play in social and combat scenarios with other players and also "NPCs"? Definitely playing a role.

English
0
2
10
223
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
@ScythianB I think weekly, but it had to bend some due to the nature of such a large campaign in the pre internet era.
English
0
0
3
32
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
Players who took on the roles of the rulers of these countries would make and break alliances, go to war over disagreements that took place during roleplaying, and control the armies on the battlefield. These characters had attributes, backgrounds, and families. Sounds familiar
Crossface Killah tweet media
English
3
6
28
331
John Pliskin
John Pliskin@JohnPliskin6·
@Crossface02 @NotJonMollison The poor put upon "nerd" and his hobbies were always in the position they were in because they were typically smarmy, low moral, little gremlins. I got plenty of jock, prep, upper crust, etc friends into Table Top games as a teen because I was sociable and showered. It's not hard
English
1
0
5
25
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
@Nobleshield What else would you call it when players take on the roles of characters who have attributes such as fighting ability, intelligence, charm, jealousy, attractiveness (and more), and play in social and combat scenarios with other players and also "NPCs"? Definitely playing a role.
English
1
0
6
285
Nobleshield
Nobleshield@Nobleshield·
@Crossface02 I guess if you consider the Braunstein to be "roleplaying," then Tony Bath's stuff is the proto-Braunstein.
English
1
0
0
41
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
@Nobleshield Disagree. Players took on roles. Played them out. Had personalities. Had attributes that were unrelated to battlefield.
English
1
0
8
81
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
The term "UrD&D" has often been used to mock those who believe that such a thing could exist... and yet...
English
0
1
24
255
Mr. Wargaming
Mr. Wargaming@NotJonMollison·
@Crossface02 There's nothing new under the sun. Just lost and forgotten tricks waiting to be reassembled in new ways and repackaged for new players. Same as it always was.
English
1
0
9
54
Mr. Wargaming
Mr. Wargaming@NotJonMollison·
We beat the up the theater kids, then stole their girlfriends and showed them how good a real gamer can make them feel. Cry moar, loser.
Mr. Wargaming tweet media
English
3
1
37
810
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
@Goblinfights People paying to write 5 paragraph struggle sessions is really when twitter started to go downhill. If people can't say things in a succinct manner.. I don't know if they are even worth listening to.
English
0
0
12
89
Kodiak
Kodiak@Goblinfights·
Brevity is the great intellectual filter of X.
Alexander 'Lex' Williams@squidlord

I want you to hold up for a minute and listen to people who have not played D&D as the only game. They decided that was the one and true only game in their entire existence because 15 years ago there was a strong and vibrant indie story gaming community which was cranking out bangers where railroading was absolutely not something you had to talk about because it was largely impossible. 2010 gave us Apocalypse World, which is very much focused on the characters first and foremost, and the GM's job is to "vomit forth apocrypha" in the pursuit of the conversation which is the play of the game. The GM really can't railroad play in the same sense because they don't really control play. They only control how the world reacts to the player's actions. 2009 gave us Fiasco, which did away with the GM role altogether and was entirely the better for it. It had an extremely focused genre and framework, absolutely. Everyone at the table played a criminal or other ne'er-do-well in the middle of a situation gone terribly wrong. But 80% of that situation was randomly generated from some thematic tables, as were the characters. Railroading was impossible because there was no one holding the tiller on the train. Microscope from 2011 was Ben Robbins dropping out all the stuff that traditional RPGs had come to teach us that were completely unnegotiable. Not only did it do away with the concept of GM, it did away with the connection/attachment between an individual player and an individual character. In fact, tossed out the concept of linear time altogether while he was at it. As a result, a game fell out the other end in which one plays roles most certainly. But those roles are both temporary in the case of individual people and broader in terms of player interaction when it comes to the foci which they pursue across all of the unfolding events. Dungeon World (2012) was as close to classic D&D as the PBTA-inspired were likely to get. It's not my favorite game design in the space, but when it comes to replicating the kitchen sink fantasy tropes within the context of a player-driven story architecture, where the GM again plays the role of arbiter and referee in many cases. If you are familiar with GM'd non-D&D fantasy RPGs, this is likely one of the few that you're aware of. On the other side of the world, philosophically, we have Lady Blackbird, which was published in 2009. It literally inverts the sense of railroaded games in which the situation is set up extremely hard. There's very little variation in where you start and how you start, but then how you play yourself out of that hole is the whole game. Super lightweight mechanics, a strongly framed situation, but beyond the absolute concrete of the basin in which you wake up, what ensues is not really something that can be railroaded. It is just what it is. But even the powerful Powered by the Apocalypse did not come just out of nowhere. Polaris: Chivalric Tragedy at the Utmost North, written by Ben Lehman, provided a GM-less game in which the other players brought the conflict. Again, there can be no way to railroad when there are no tracks. There are merely the situations set up between characters, and there can be no railroading when there is no GM. From 2007, we have In a Wicked Age, where Vincent Baker does his sword and sorcery thing, but drives the entire thing off of four distinct oracles to generate the seeds of the setting in the first place, promoting everyone into direct, brutal conflicts of interest. Then all the GM does is sit back with his hands in the air and helps guide the fallout, not the fight. But if we cast our eyes even further back to the heyday years of 1992, we get Over the Edge, which is a surrealist conspiracy game rooted in an extremely lightweight, high-flexibility, high-speed, low-drag, narrative-first architecture, which used broad phrases to describe its mechanical hooks rather than tightly quantized numbers tied to player-defined traits. It's a game in which you can definitely railroad your characters, but it is simultaneously so easy and so hard, and they have so much power to push back against it that it's never worth the effort. The stories that emerge at the table are not your stories, and they can never be your stories, but must be the stories of the characters that the players are poking around this incredible surrealist universe with. That's where the rubber hits the road. Not too long after that, only a decade, you have Luke Crane's Burning Wheel, which is super dense and is right there at the front of the 2000s Indies boom, but it definitely does not lean toward railroading once you understand how and why the pieces move together as they do. The wants and needs of the character absolutely have more impact into their achievements than whether or not they want to live or die and take actions to that course. Again, not one of my favorite designs, but certainly deeply impactful and deserves better than it ever gets in this kind of analysis. Let's look back at 2004 again, where Vincent Baker gives us one of the best narrative-forward GM light games when he gives us Dogs in the Vineyard. Players are absolute authorities to determine what is right and wrong, and their characters are given the literal narrative power to resolve conflicts as they see fit. Somehow it all comes together to be a moral symphony no matter where they start. You can't railroad someone into it. They have way too much agency in deciding how they want to play things out, and the GM can but watch. 2001 - Sorcerer. The GM is literally remanded to merely reacting to the chaos the players unleash, and they will unleash it because all of their powers are hooked to their greatest failings as people: what they want, why they want it, and what it will cost them, both in mind, body, and spirit, is exactly what plays out at the table. The GM's job is largely to hang big price tags on pretty things. Ten Candles from 2015, again roughly 15 years ago, gave us a zero-prep tragedy. The players at the table have absolute agency in co-authoring their own descent into darkness, with one mechanical certainty: everyone dies at the end. This may be one of the most freeing sessions of play you ever have the pleasure of going through. Kingdom (2013) is another Ben Robbins jam where he decides to take things in a direction that is almost unexpected. Yes, your player is generally sticking with a single character for the entire game, but who that character is within the context of the greater narrative, whether they be: The power that holds the reins of authority, the perspective which can easily foresee the inevitable consequences rushing toward the community, or the touchstone characters that act as the raw emotional nerve of the populace. Then there's the mechanics for when one player wants to subvert and take for their own another player's role. What happens when another player simply wants to abandon theirs for a third? The very underlying nature of the situation changes. There is no railroad strong enough to direct the bounds of these paths. Basically, what I'm saying is that before the article that Alexander Macris wrote in Arbiter of Worlds for The Escapist 15 years ago, we'd already had a lot of these discussions. We'd banged out a dozen different approaches for thoughts on agency, thoughts on GM centrality, thoughts on whether the GM is even required or acts as an active impediment to roleplay of good quality at a table. Not only that, we had shaken out different ways to experiment with it, to find out, to try it in different directions and turn out better games. Alexander may have been the lone voice crying out against railroading story game mentality in the D&D space, but because he didn't understand story gaming mentality, he completely failed to notice that it wasn't the story gamers who were trying to force stories into narratives. That's not what was happening on the story game side of the world, but I suspect there's a lot of cachet in pushing it over there and blaming it on what other people were doing at their table and having a good time with. Because there's no way that people who weren't playing sanctioned D&D could ever be not having the same damn problems the D&D players couldn't shut up about for five minutes. That could never be the case. Obviously, the story gamers were just really frustrated theater kids who wish they could be as cool as the guys arguing over the question of whether "I hit him with my sword" is sufficient narrative to be worthy of an extra advantage or not. We were playing games which were made entirely out of player agency long before you could convince someone to try it out. It would be nice to receive a little respect for the work that went and proved that some of your theories were absolutely correct, but most of them didn't go nearly far enough. I don't expect that to ever happen. You would have to be open to the idea that games beyond D&D not only exist but have fairly strong historical and game theoretic value. They do things that are worth having at the table. But you can't say that, can you? Because you need to be able to tear them down because they're not D&D. Even ACKS2, which is in all ways a laudable effort, is really just a sort of pseudo-D&D once you get under the hood. It's just one with a focus on domain play turned up to 11 and a whole lot of setting information canonized, structured, palletized, packaged, and made at least somewhat ready for domain structured play. I understand what it is and I understand what it's good for. There are days I think I might even play in it if someone offered me a seat at the table, but there's no way in hell I would ever run it. After all, I already own Aria: Canticle of the Monomyth, and that pretty much covers everything in that field I could ever possibly want. You were the lone voice crying out against the D&D story game railroading mentality, but proxying it onto story games because you didn't understand them. You didn't want to understand them. You found them to be a convenient alien to blame the problems in your own backyard on, and you never liked theater kids. That's all. That's all it is. I thank you for what you've done, but truthfully, fuck you for what you've forgotten.

English
3
1
16
461
Mr. Wargaming
Mr. Wargaming@NotJonMollison·
Old and busted games: here's ONE cool idea lifted from older games. I built an entire title around the concept. Gibsmemonies. New hotness: We synthesized a dozen ideas from the late 60s style gaming into a cohesive whole. You can have it for free. And they hate us for it.
Mr. Wargaming tweet media
English
1
4
29
510
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
@ericbabe3 @Mabon5127 @dm_serious But they are not personal characters. This is an important distinction. The character was not rolled up for the player and played from zero to hero. The character was created to serve a purpose in the campaign. The player can take on that role, or the referee can if he wants.
English
0
0
2
16
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
@ericbabe3 @Mabon5127 @dm_serious These characters exist in a third position between NPC and PC. They are important characters to the campaign, and are played by players often. The players control them as leaders of armies for mass combat, or for roleplaying their domains in high pressure social situations etc.
English
2
0
3
16
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
If you have been wondering what I have been working on in private with D&D and Tabletop Games:
Crossface Killah tweet media
English
7
4
53
946
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
@candlecav @stee_blackbend Everyone always wonders how to do something suspenseful or "horror" in D&D. This is one way. A skeleton lurching toward you has never seemed so daunting until you have no clue how much HP your fighter has. A kobold with a pitchfork suddenly seems like a dangerous encounter.
English
0
0
2
18
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
@candlecav @stee_blackbend I think there can be value in a game like that, but players like to roll dice. You want a really suspenseful dungeon though.. you roll up the characters and the HP in secret away from the players. Any damage the PCs take is rolled in secret and only given as a description.
English
1
0
3
12
Crossface Killah
Crossface Killah@Crossface02·
Published in 1975, this article shows Tony Bath recalling an event that happened "some years ago". I could expound on the significance and implications.. However, I believe you can see the importance of it for yourself. Tony Bath was and is the true unheralded father of "D&D".
Crossface Killah tweet media
English
17
28
167
9.3K