DXU24

It's finally here, what you've all been waiting for. A video and not the final released product. DXU24 Development Update 2 youtu.be/7RCNGq8Q3s4?si…

@Spiders_STG @falco_girgis It's meaningful to them BECAUSE it makes them happy.

@DXU241 @falco_girgis We’ve been given the gift of giving meaning. How is that arbitrary? Or made smaller by calling it ‘human’? Also, not my place to say but I doubt dudes’ think the work they’re doing is meaningless and just for the happys. I don’t even think that!

Made the "news" lol For the record, I think homebrew coding and making new tools for old hardware is awesome. However... if the result is "what if" vibe-ports of beloved games to right the wrongs of the Console Warz, I do think it's creatively bankrupt nostalgia-pilling. Sorry!

Those buffers aren't common to ever game though, and can be encoded differently depending on the game you're playing? For this to work with DLSS, the developer would need to explicitly give DLSS access to these buffers to? Do you have confirmation that's happening? You're still missing the MOST important part of information in the process which I find the most egregious, which is information about all the lights in the scene. Just relighting everything "overcast day" doesn't really cut it. I'm keen to see how good their light property approximation is (as I understand it DLSS5 guesses about lighting).

"Then Nvidia confirmed that DLSS 5 takes a single 2D frame plus motion vectors. No geometry. No depth. No PBR data. No light sources." You literally spill nonsense. 2d frame at render time prior to post process(which they stated it is) has literally all that information you say it doesn't. You say you've read the blog but your 2 neurons can't put together that when a frame is constructed you get all the info, geometry, materials, textures, lighting, depth, shadows, etc. Any process/calculation that is prior to post processing has access to the g-buffer information. These:

People keep sending me Daniel Owen's video which basically states that DLSS5 is an instagram filter because it uses just one frame and a motion vector. While his questions were valid and he actually got the replies he needed, his lack of basic technical understanding took him to the wrong conclusion. A lot of you have a very hard time understanding the basics of how a frame is rendered in your game and what kind of information is available before postprocessing and straight up went to the idea is that a rendered frame is like the screenshot you saved on your disk. @ado_tan and his friends have some amazing breakdowns about how different games render stuff. I suggest you to dive on his blog and check all of them out. This way maybe you will understand a bit more about how games are rendered. Here you have an article he wrote about how GTA5 renders a frame. I'm sure it will be eye opening for a lot of you. Till you do your research...I'll just go and play Crimson Desert.

@Spiders_STG @falco_girgis Something with "meaning" and "point" is entirely a human construct and arbitrary. Meaning is given by that giving the meaning, it's not an intrinsic property. TL;DR, dudes having a good time doing what he does, everything we do is rust, enjoy your existence while you can, peace.

@DXU241 @falco_girgis That’s not my context. I believe we are links in a Great Chain. Happiness that meaninglessness on top of pointlessness is rust.

@falco_girgis @Spiders_STG In the context of the universe, every single thing a person does is cosmically pointless, like, people need to get over themselves. We do things because we are human, and that is meaning enough to do a thing, especially if it makes you happy.

You totally misunderstand how creative this kind of shit really is and are only judging a book by its cover, because I assume you aren't a software engineer or a technical person, but... Don't you think that if some rag-tag group of punkasses is able to suddenly push a piece of hardware further than the multimillion dollar company with deep pockets and direct lines of communication to chip vendors ever could, that just maybe it's because of their creativity and ingenuity in learning and discovering new ways to push the hardware? Calling a tech demo like is "uncreative" just because of the assets that were chosen is ridiculous. This is showing off an ENGINE that geniuses in our community created out of nothing, with no commercial tools, no funding, and no help. They could've literally loaded any other model into the engine and recorded a video of it, and you wouldn't have complained at all. But nope. They made the mistake of choosing an insanely complex scene that pushed a console to its limits that was said to be immensely more powerful than the DC was... and because of that, you're deeming their work as somehow lacking of creativity? lol.

Daniel got important clarifications from NVIDIA. TLDR: the "DLSS5 skeptical" were right about *everything*. 1⃣ It's a 2D AI Filter. Input is only color buffer & motion vectors. The model doesn't see geometry, lights, PBR properties, normals, anything🧵 youtu.be/D0EM1vKt36s

Ok, but then why would you have the demo look like slop if it was configurable. I'd love to be proven wrong, @nvidia . What was presented to the world has that stable diffusion look, of course theres going to be outcry.

@_LarZen_ @kiaran_ritchie They didn't say DLSS 5.

@kiaran_ritchie No we won’t. DLSS5 is dependent on quality assets to deliver good results.

In the future, you'll turn DLSS off and see this

@isgoodactually Appreciated

@DXU241 Allow me to share a few gems from today:

Opening X today cause I know it will all just be quality DLSS 5 memes

Games CAN be realistic, but realism is not the goal of every game. We don't need style transfer, we need AI to make better faster rendering algos that communicate the artist's intent.

You might not see it now, but the dangers of DLSS 5 are huge. We risk normalizing all game art into one boring homogeneous form. AI art already looks sloppy and has a "look", now that looks is working its way into your interactive media.

I just ran the dev beta of DLSS 5 on Deus Ex and it looks absolutely stunning

@dev_mikee Enjoy some pizza for me

Okay I found the best GDC hangout spot it's a bit dirty not gonna lie

@bencun93 That sounds like a magical moment. Pixel shaders really upped the graphics game.

@DXU241 MX440 was basically a beefed up GF2. I actually had GF4 MX440 then it immediately died and I ended up with GF2 MX400 and everything ran the same. Halo also blew my mind after I upgraded to GF 6200 and saw the pixel shader effects after many years of not even knowing about them.

All I remember is my TNT2 shitting the bed by today's standards trying to render this, but it was such a huge leap from the iMac I was gaming on for years that I couldn't have cared less.

@bencun93 Similar, it was GF4 MX440 for me, right after the TNT2. The lack of pixel shaders for Halo was a real moment for me. TNT2 went so hard on so many games, a real champ.

@DXU241 TNT2 M64 Pro with 32MB got me through so much, man. I upgraded only after it finally died in like 2004 and then I could finally play Halo because I got a GF2 with HW T&L. Crazy times, gaming on a budget.

Yeah, your POV is totally valid. The only thing I can really do is try to put myself in the shoes of the original devs, I'm trying to replicate intention on similar small budget and time frame to see what I can do. But what comes out the other side will be a distinctively me interpretation of the source material though, I don't think that could ever be denied.

@DXU241 And I can't wait to see both options (or more) when you're done.

There's a lot of details that can be eek'd out of old meshes and textures in games. The material system in Surreal 98 tries to guess at what roughness, specular and normal map values might make sense for a given texture, with parameters for tweaking. MJ12 Command Deus Ex GOTY

The thing about DX is once it left it's creators hands, like any art, it started getting its own interpretations and special meaning to others. Even though, objectively, the original renderer is dog shit (by todays standards), and the reality is if the devs had better tools/technologies, they'd have used them and the game would have looked completely different on release; its current incarnation has still solidified itself as its own aesthetic, and the very presence of it being "the same" is comforting, but also has some deeper meaning to many of us. The danger of doing what I'm doing is I'm trying to expose it to new audiences, but older audiences lean heavily on it's familiarity, and the more I change it, the further from that it gets, making people disconnect. At some point, I also want to do a "raw" mode, which doesn't use UE5's lighting system, but does all the original lighting calculations using "unlit" materials in UE5.

@DXU241 It's wild that we're having the conservation vs restoration debate with a PC game and I love it. "Do we keep it exactly like it is now, or make it look the way they meant it to?" Normally you hear this between curators at a museum dealing with stuff hundreds of years old.

@HeWhoHasNoName Nice part of Surreal 98 is you can turn it off if you don't want it :) I really appreciate all the effort put into the textures for these old games cause that gives me so much information to go on for trying to replicate the intention of what they wanted it to look like.

@DXU241 Part of me loves seeing classics given as much modern tech as possible. Another part of me can see that in lots of them - DX is a fantastic example - a ton of loving, careful & deliberate work was done on the hand-authored textures and lighting, and this starts to lose that...