DocMelbourne

@PostLeftWatch I’m of Indian heritage, wouldn’t call myself particularly anti-woke but I hated this discourse. The Simpsons has been crap since 2000 but Apu was a great character during the show’s peak. He was portrayed far more positively than most characters

Holy shit, there are still people extremely pissed off that they stopped having white people voice minority characters on a show that had been middling-to-terrible since 2000. This is one reason why we needed woke.

@theojaffee @jmkettle I don’t understand how people as dumb as you make it this far in life

@jmkettle It’s less about there being less to lose and more about there being more to gain for poorer people Much of Africa is poorer today than it was in 1960 even in real terms. Most of the rest is stagnant. What will bring these people out of poverty if not machine intelligence?

Negative sentiment toward AI is a luxury belief

@_colourmeamused Geopolitics is like a movie and the more bad guys you kill the better you are at Geopolitics

“but still”

@TomAllmann @PpollingNumbers Yeah dude, the “corrupt media” blocked the Strait of Hormuz you fucking cretin

@PpollingNumbers If people have this perception, it is because the corrupt media has been actively rooting and slanting against America in its coverage and Democrats have been loudly working against the 🇺🇸 as well.

How is the US war in Iran going 🟤 Badly 47% 🟢 Well 27% YouGov #A - A - 3/17

@PpollingNumbers @academic_la The 27% need to donate their brains for medical science. Can’t really wait for decades, we need this information NOW

@kcp12304 @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari But there’s a massive difference between a) a racist caricature on a regular show and b) a sympathetic, somewhat stereotypical character on a show full of much harsher stereotypes. A) might create racists. B) is much less likely to

@D__Melb @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari It’s not zero racism vs the worst racism. Racism in America oscillates. People where react to culture like the stuff they see in TV. Do you seriously think Americans aren’t reactive to mass media? We have a reality tv star as President.

funny epilogue to this was when the Simpsons decided to recast every nonwhite character on the show after George Floyd he demanded credit for it and pretended he also had a problem with characters like Dr. Hibbert and Carl

@Michael_Druggan @fchollet Humans are not usually confidently wrong in the same way LLMs often are. That’s not to say humans can’t also be confidently wrong but the frequency is very different. And they won’t be as superficially convincing even if they’re confident.

@fchollet It is genuinely true that many of the failure modes observed in LLMs are also observed in humans and I think pointing this out when it comes up is important.

When the latest AI systems can't do something, there's a category of people who will immediately say, "well humans can't do it either!" - Then they stop saying it when AI improves a bit. Been hearing it for 4+ years, "humans can't reason either", "humans can't adapt to a task they haven't been prepared for", "humans can't follow instructions", "humans also suffer from hallucinations", etc. Until 2025 I was frequently told "humans can't do ARC 1 tasks either" (in reality any normally smart human would do >95% on ARC 1 if properly incentivized). Now that AI saturates ARC 1 they've completely stopped saying this.

@kcp12304 @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari The people who killed the Sikh were almost certainly racists before the planes hit the towers. The idea they might have been people who believed in equality before 9/11 and then indiscriminately killed a guy in a turban after just doesn’t make sense.

@D__Melb @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari No, it actually proves my point because it shows people are irrational. That they can be racist b/c of tv show. I saw it happen! You’re trying to find logic in dumb 🇺🇸 People thought my dad was Puerto Rican. With my gen, Americans had a language to be racists towards Indians.

@kcp12304 @JerryMorant69 @Ren_Chandler4 @MatthewFerrari People are stupid and would’ve used even a non stereotypical Indian character if that was the only Indian on their screens.

@JerryMorant69 @Ren_Chandler4 @D__Melb @MatthewFerrari So? People are stupid and will react to even a “positive” stereotype.

@kcp12304 @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari Come on man, bullying being particularly bad during the height of that show is a classic correlation =/= causation thing. And the Sikh 9/11 thing proves my point. Something that had nothing to do with Indians or Sikhs and still the racists found an excuse.

@D__Melb @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari That isn’t true b/c bullying was particularly bad during the height of that show. Older gen I talk to experienced racism but not that badly. People my age know what I mean. Remember, this is a country that *killed* Skih people right after 9/11. People here will turn on a dime

@kcp12304 @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari Sure, this bit I don’t disagree with at all. But this is “the problem with Americans” rather than the problem with Apu. Those kids who said “thank you come again”? They would’ve latched onto whatever they could find.

@D__Melb @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari U don’t understand that most white Americans live in segregated neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, etc. This is a country that voted for Trump twice (almost 3x). They are easily swayed by a cartoon stereotype. It may not make sense to a Brit but we Indian-American saw it happen!

@Ren_Chandler4 @kcp12304 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari That’s not a problem with the show/character, it’s a problem with society as a whole at the time. Apu was also far more three dimensional than other stereotypes. He had entire episodes around him, he was often very close to the Simpsons family and was portrayed more positively.

@D__Melb @kcp12304 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari (Almost like you should watch it, because in it, Kondabolu does in fact explain that while the Simpsons mocks everyone, those ethnic groups had positive representation to balance it out, while Indians at the time did not.)

@kcp12304 @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari I guess the reason I don’t like this whole thing is (in addition to being a Simpsons fan) that it requests special treatment for Indians in a show that playfully mocks/stereotypes all sorts of others. I don’t believe in that and I disagree with the cause/effect attributed to it.

@kcp12304 @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari But the show was called “the problem with Apu”. Scottish Americans didn’t get bullied with Simpsons lines because they’re white and blended in. I just reject the premise that Apu caused much harm. It was due to racist attitudes that would’ve existed without the show.

@kcp12304 @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari If The Simpsons was a normal show set in a hospital or an office and everyone else was varying degrees of normal except for the racially stereotyped Indian then yes, I’d be fully on board with the criticisms. But this wasn’t the case at all.

@kcp12304 @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari But that’s what happened to the character. Pretty much everyone on the Simpsons was a walking stereotype! If it’s bad this was the case (and I’d agree with this) this is the fault of the industry who didn’t feature Indians in prominent roles. It isn’t a fault with the show.

@kcp12304 @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari No, the simplistic argument is “racists use words from character, therefore character bad and should be axed”. The show certainly didn’t create racism against Indians. There’s no evidence it made it worse. They were already racist, Apu was just the most prominent Indian on TV

@D__Melb @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari No. That’s a simplistic argument that ignores social context. The show gave racists and ignorant Americans ammo that didn’t previously exist. That means ppl believe bad stereotypes. Mass media can make racism exist where there was none previously or make existing racism worse.

@kcp12304 @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari I’m of Indian heritage and have suffered racist abuse even if it’s not this specifically. I get it just fine. I fundamentally disagree on principle. Those kids would have been racist with or without Apu. I’d prefer to look at the character itself and form my own objective view.

@D__Melb @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari Nah. You don’t get it because you weren’t there and didn’t see the social context of it all. Show like the Simpson can still do harm without intending to. Image not just being made fun of for “worshipping cows” but having to explain to parents and even teachers as a kid about it

@Rohith739 @DeniseC48200342 If it was you competing for jobs in India and increased competition from IMGs was causing you/your colleagues to be unemployed in your own country then no way would you be saying this. That’s why India has similar rules to almost everywhere else You are fundamentally dishonest

@D__Melb @DeniseC48200342 Yep I see the world differently. I respect everyone’s problems and never belittle them. I feel everyone should be given a fair chance and not discriminated against on the basis of race, gender, sexuality, nationality or ethnicity. Everyone has problems and they are valid! Equally

As a doctor, all we practice is evidence based medicine! Preach what we practice 🙌🏻

@kcp12304 @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari You don’t need to sell me on the idea of Americans being stupid and racist. But if those racist kids didn’t say the Apu line they would’ve said something else. You can’t let idiot kids dictate things like this. I’d much rather judge things on their own merits.

@D__Melb @Ren_Chandler4 @JerryMorant69 @MatthewFerrari No. Indians were relatively newer to America. I don’t totally blame the show but it wasn’t “sensitive” toward Indian. Again, I saw adults and kids be racist or believe things about Indians based on the show. Part of that has to do with how stupid AND racist Americans are.