
Symon DeathBurst
6.6K posts

Symon DeathBurst
@Death_Burst
Computer scientist with a strong interest in sociology. Basically just a rando on the Interwebs. He/him
France Katılım Şubat 2010
158 Takip Edilen40 Takipçiler

@cmykenna So it's a bit of both, there is a common, innate base, but the base by itself doesn't do much. It needs the experience to be "activated".
English

@cmykenna A model I've seen used by biologists (but I'm not one myself, so don't quote me ^^'), is everyone has a common base of "algorithms" hardwired in the brain, which is fed different input data based on individual experience, resulting in different behavior/skills in practice.
English


@DataChaz (And full disclosure, my prior is that AI sycophancy does happen and is a real problem, but claiming that it is "mathematically proved it is inevitable" sounds misleading to me based on this simplified model.)
English

@DataChaz The results appear true *relative to the model*, but the link between the model and reality is highly debatable. I'm a researcher myself, I know models are by essence simplifications, but this one is so simple it misses critical details. Not convinced at all.
English
Symon DeathBurst retweetledi

Vinod Khosla n'est pas exactement un marxiste, c'est même l'un des plus puissants acteurs du monde de l'investissement dans la technologie et l'un des actionnaires de référence de OpenAI. Son appel à ne plus taxer les revenus du travail (pour tous ceux qui gagnent moins de 100,000 $ aux USA) est donc singulier. Selon lui, le déséquilibre entre les revenus du travail et ceux du capital – les actionnaires d'OpenAI et plus généralement les entreprises utilisant l'IA – sera tel qu'il faudra y remédier par une taxation moindre des travailleurs et accrue du capital. C'est en réalité un très vieux débat : Benoit Hamon par exemple lorsqu'il était candidat à la présidentielle de 2012 avait alors appelé à "taxer les robots", dans un contexte où la croissance de la productivité restait toutefois faible et n'a d'ailleurs pas vraiment évolué depuis. On peut épiloguer sur le moment où une évolution de la productivité agrégée va se produire et sur la profondeur du "frottement schumpétérien" (le temps qu'il faut à un salarié pour se reformer et retrouver un travail), il n'en reste pas moins salutaire que des voix, directement issue du monde de la technologie, admettent l'hypothèse de ces enjeux et appelle à une régulation appropriée. Vinod observe que cet enjeu de distribution de la valeur pourrait être le principal sujet de la prochaine élection présidentielle de 2028.
On pourrait aller plus loin en faisant l'hypothèse de l'avènement d'un "IA marxisme" si d'aventure la croissance de la productivité venait à se faire au détriment des classes moyennes, ce qui est loin d'être exclu. ft.com/content/7de1d3…


Français

@patio11 (And I'm French, living in Sweden, doing most of my life in English. I can relate to the 'non-native' argument. Even still, half below 6th-grade seems too big to be true.)
English

@patio11 The reasoning is valid, but I question the premise, indeed... "It is fact" that most adults read below 6th-grade level? I'd really like a source, and the link I can see in the screenshot is below the paywall cut..
English

@mmitchell_ai The simple bandaid, but not workable long term, is cooptation, you can only post if someone else vouches for you.
But for something more sustainable, that does not unduly raise barrier to entry for beginners, I'm beat...
English

Similar to publication venues, the world of open coding is now being inundated by slop. What solutions can we use here to address this new world issue?
clem 🤗@ClementDelangue
Our biggest open-source repos are getting overwhelmed by AI slop which literally makes Github unusable (~a new pull request every 3 minutes). Fun new challenges in an agentic world!
English

@realcptnahab I'm "definitively" going to steal this :p It always applies.
English

People claim the “Japanese wait for a crosswalk even when they don’t have to” thing is an overblown myth. No. I just waited 30 seconds with an elderly couple at this cross walk, about one lane wide, at 6am with zero cars around. Happens every day in all Japanese cities (outside of central Tokyo)

English

@Rivvyan @RiotPhroxzon @LolMalice Don't grind more. Just make sure you don't throw that 1 in 20 game.
Or from another perspective: 3 throws is more than 100 LP.
English

@Rivvyan @RiotPhroxzon @LolMalice Having just ONE more win over 20 games, if it's the difference between going 11W-9L and 12W-8L, that's going from 55% WR to 60%, and that's also doubling your climb speed.
English


@Riokaii @RiotPhroxzon Pretty sure it *does* function like that already, and that they expect *Master / low GM* to have a stable 50% winrate, not top Chall.
English

@RiotPhroxzon Otherwise the alternative is that the top end players will just be expected to have 55-60% ish winrates across hundreds of games in a season. your LP system needs to function around that assumption.
English

Apex Ranked Followup
Thank you for all your feedback about the changes last week. I wanted to give some explanations on what we're seeing and why it is how it is right now; I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, but I hope being transparent will lead to more constructive conversations with everyone
Feedback we heard
1. The ladder has less meaningful breakpoints to strive for, now that the LP gaps between Master, Grandmaster, Challenger and Rank1 are really wide in a few regions (NA, EUW, EUN mainly). The gaps between tiers can feel exhaustingly large with low feedback and satisfaction on the journey from say low masters to high masters
2. It also makes comparison to previous season benchmarks lose meaning (1k LP, 2k LP, etc.)
3. Many are calling for an Apex Ranked reset; I'd love to know more about exactly what you mean by this (more below)
4. The ladder already felt grindy, like you had to play a lot of games to get to the next tier, and now it feels even more so
5. The top players getting +30/-10 even if their MMR is high feels unfair if a new or lower account can't do that; there are feelings of “how can I catch that”
6. Depending on which patch someone played, with the same winrates, their LP outcomes can be quite different, which is frustrating
On who is getting +30/-10 and who is +/-20
- There have been a lot of discussions around who is getting good gains and who is not
- We agree it feels unfair right now for the top of the ladder to be getting +30 while others are getting +20; I just wanted to explain why this is
- This is because the weeks many players spent eating +10/-30 from the soft cap is being repaid; essentially for every game that a player played a +10/-30LP game, they will get paid back with +30/-10LP ones and this will grow the top of the ladder (similar to how the max LP on the ladder grows early in the season)
- Once the ladder stabilizes, 95+% of the ladder (including the top of the ladder and including masters entrants at the bottom) is intended to get +/-20
- This means the only way to climb the ladder is to have a >50% winrate
- If you have a 50% winrate over a long period, then you’re probably in the right skill level and are not in a climbing state
- I also want to state this very clearly as a response to folks saying they should roll a fresh account to fight the Challenger LP gains. There is no advantage to running a fresh account up the ladder to try and hit an Apex rank, it will always be better to start with a pre-existing Apex account
- I know it didn’t work like this in Seasons past, but it does now (and has for the past season or two) and this is to further disincentivize smurfing, something many players on the ladder had mentioned as a pain point
- The only way to climb from this state is to improve skill level
- I can guarantee that a Challenger player will be able to climb just fine with +/-20 given enough games, because they will have a very high winrate through Master and Grandmaster, but this leads me to my next point
On ladder grindiness
- We hear your concerns on needing to play too many games to climb up the ladder
- It is true that older accounts that played their accounts up to challenger will be advantaged in Season reset races with the way we currently do soft rank resets
- We do this because we want to make camping spots less effective of a strategy, dissuade smurfing, and encourage people to play on their main accounts
- If the legacy accounts are not advantaged, there is no blocker to just running many fresh accounts through the Ranked ladder to hit Challenger; I think most players would agree that would be a worse experience
- Secondly, as soon as Challenger players run into negative LP gains, many will stop playing on their Challenger accounts and move to smurfing, which is bad for match quality and queue times as well
- We believe the high LP values are a better alternative to negative LP gains, but they are both not ideal
- Additionally, we have daily game requirements and cap the max LP gains at 30 so that players don't camp on their spots without playing so that others have more opportunities to overtake them
- In a world where a new Masters account has a 75% winrate through the Apex ladder (ie. is probably a top 10 player), that is 300 games to get to 3000LP from 0LP
- If you are starting from a legacy account, it will be significantly less games than this
- We don't believe it should be possible to be able to get to Rank 1 from a fresh account in less than 2-300 games. That makes smurfing, running up multiple accounts and maintaining them too attractive of an option
- For one of the premier competitive games, we don't believe it is too much to ask for a player to play 1-2 games a day (between 3-700 games a year for the highest skill players in the game). Genre expectations to reach the top in many other games (including other MOBA’s) can be orders of magnitude higher than this and often require full time grinding
- On the flip side, we acknowledge that there's a sweet spot on how much a player needs to play to not perceive it as too grindy, many people have to study, have jobs, etc and so it needs to be achievable for them too
- We want to balance all these considerations; reducing incentives to smurf, how grindy it feels to achieve/maintain a rank and how legacy accounts are treated
On why the LP is so high
- I saw a comment asking whether the gap between Iron and Master (2800LP) is really equivalent to the gap between Master and Rank1 Challenger (2, 3, 4000LP)
- In some regions, the answer to that is yes, in others, it's not quite as large, but still close
- Players have gotten significantly better each year, especially with how often the top players are boot camping, taking a shot at Pro and learning from it, and pushing each other to get better
- This is one of the reasons why the LP gaps between tiers are so high and the existence of the soft caps in previous years ended up suppressing the observed top LP's by some amount, so the gap looked lower than it actually was
- Factually, there is a huge gap in skill between Master and Grandmaster and again from Grandmaster to Challenger so amount of points between them has to be reasonably large
- This is a very common pattern in long running games, for example in Chess, Magnus Carlsen vs any random Grandmaster has close to a 90% chance to win
- As League goes on, the gap between Rank1 (say Showmaker) and Master 0 LP is going to continue to widen; there are so many things you can do to influence the team in small but meaningful ways that aren’t super noticeable individually but have a huge impact over the course of a game, like pinging, shotcalling, soaking pressure, getting vision, etc.
- But there's a fine balance here, we can agree that progression between tiers can feel daunting in the current tuning and there is a lacking sense of progression. This is why we’re considering adding additional tiers to break this up and create more “checkpoints”
On Matchmaking Quality
- There are some expectations of being able to have full challenger lobbies, all duos balanced, all role parity (on-role vs off-role), low queue times, all equal LP, remove autofill at all times of day
- I want to set an expectation that this is not possible with only 300 Challengers and 700 Grandmasters in many regions
- Players need to be autofilled, especially at the top of the ladder for us to make queue times reasonable, but we can at least try to make those autofills balanced in role
- If a game is unbalanced in one of the axes above, we try to balance it out in another axis, but we are sometimes going to have to grab some Masters players to fill Challengers lobbies (hopefully not during peak time)
- Especially with the new role parity algorithm, we believe we are making very fair games (close to 50% chance to win) in >90% of situations, with close LP between teams, duo balance, role parity
- We believe the new algorithm is already significantly better than the old one, even though there may be some rose tinted glasses about how much better Matchmaking was before, which we don't agree with. We are still improving it
Why do Challengers get +30LP, even when there are 200 LP masters in the game
- LP gains are given based on how fair the match is and mentioned above, over 90% of matches have 50% chance to win
- The reason why the Challengers are getting +30 for these games is because of the repayment of debt in the points above; this will resolve itself soon and the players will quickly go back to +-20
- If the match itself is 50% chance for either team to win, then the performance of the various people in the game is already baked into the LP gains (ie. the 200 LP master is expected to play worse, the Challenger is expected to play better)
- There will usually be something offsetting this LP imbalance (whether it’s an extra duo on one team, someone playing secondary instead of autofill, etc.)
- As I mentioned above, we believe >90% of our games are fair; it can be hard to guarantee fairness in off-peak and/or in small regions
Other things we're thinking about (nothing confirmed)
- [Agree] Many players are calling for better feelings of progression and progress in these tiers
- [Agree] Reductions of grindiness (eg. more decay game banks, increasing max LP gain past +30LP, lowering distance between tiers, adding new tiers)
- [Agree] Better reasons to maintain and play on Challenger accounts, rather than Smurf
- [Uncertain] Adding more Grandmaster/Challenger slots to regions that have high numbers of players (which would bring the points between tiers down)
- [Uncertain] Reducing how much advantage players get on their legacy accounts from start of Season (eg. capping at +25LP at max, instead of +30LP), but this will also further incentivize smurfing and increase feelings of grindiness
- [Agree] Lower the amount of resetting at start of Seasons (eg. maybe start the Season at Master 0LP)
More on Apex resets
- To get a better understanding of what y'all mean by ladder reset, some possibilities are detailed below,
- Not committing to any particular action or if we would even do any of these, but we want to better understand your intent when some of you ask for a reset. We definitely are far out from talking about a “when” at this point
- If we went forward with any of these we would only reset a few regions as the vast majority of regions have had a normal season
- We will be doing some research in the affected regions to help inform a call one way or the other
- We would only consider a reset if we are confident it would result in an improved overall experience
Option 1: Hard Reset
- Early matchmaking will be a cluster****. There would be no memory of previous season ranks in Matchmaking
- This means you could have 5 exChallenger vs 5 Master peakers, and that would be considered a fair game in the system
- Even if a player is Challenger, they might have a team of Masters and be unable to carry hard enough vs a pretty stacked team on the other side, making the climbing process feel very RNG
- This matchmaking quality would go on for months as the ladder sorts itself out, which would contribute to a negative experience for a good amount of players
- Early season this year was a bit of a taste of this as we did a bit of a harder reset, and matchmaking quality would be significantly worse than that. This would be the most extreme option
- We still don't believe this is a good idea, but if y'all are still wanting to push for it given this context, then the team can continue to discuss it
Option 2: Softer Resets
- Soft Reset would keep some semblance of normalcy in matchmaking, but the best players will be rewarded for being high on the ladder with better position on the starting blocks so to speak. Previous challengers would get increased gains (+30/-10) well into their climbs
- The softest option would be everyone keeping their relative positions in the ladder but would need to maintain their current winrate to prove they belong there and reach their previous LP value
English

@aydaoz @GotinGeorgiG Because the radio from your phone actually has to reach to the next cell tower, whereas your bluetooth has to reach... 5 meters.
English

@aydaoz @GotinGeorgiG The radio waves from bluetooth are negligible compared to the radio just from the plain phone itself. Phone on the table + bluetooth headphone in ear is far less total radiation than just phone near your ear by itself.
English

@G0ffThew With all due respect, I haven't read the source material, so I'm OK to concede it's a great *adaptation*, but as a standalone work, it's so-so. This latest season has INCREDIBLE *presentation*, but pacing is too quick without being primed by source material.
English

this season I have felt supremely vindicated in my choice to put JJK on my top 10 anime list. manga is a different convo but as far as shounen battle anime adaptations go nothing else comes close to how it elevates its (already excellent) source material youtu.be/RfV48BSMock

YouTube
English

@drewlevin @Sykii_ @RiotPhroxzon They found the limit of the mirage, and they are asking for more. They wouldn't, or not as much, if you hadn't created it in the first place. There are better ways to incentivize players to play regularly than hidden MMR and misleading them about how progress and skills work.
English

@drewlevin @Sykii_ @RiotPhroxzon By Riot's own admission, the point of the double system Displayed Rank+Hidden MMR is to give a feeling of progress over the year, while most people are actually stable. These complaints in Apex, it's people who reached through the illusion YOU built.
English

Apex LP Gains
Hey everyone,
We’ve had a lot of attempted changes to resolve some of the root issues with the Apex experience this year. Some have worked OK and others haven’t worked as well.
We wanted to shine a light on changes that are going out (hopefully) today and how we’re going to approach it for the near term and wanted to apologize for the experience that people have been running into so far.
Does every region have negative LP gains?
- Less than 5 of our 16 regions are having negative LP gains in Apex right now, and they’re to varying extents
- Some of those are experiencing it consistently and others, just a little bit, and most, none at all
Is Aegis of Valor causing this?
- We don’t see any long term impacts on LP gains caused by Aegis
- Especially given that the majority of regions are functioning completely fine
What’s going on then?
- Masters being more achievable this Season & the best players getting stronger as the years go on is expanding the gap between the bottom of Master and the top of Challenger.
- The addition of Challenger duos made it more challenging to balance some of these games
- While we took pre-emptive mitigations to reduce the impact of things like Rank 1 & 2 duoing together, they weren’t powerful enough and resulted in the best players catapulting further ahead
- The rollout of our improved Matchmaking and better balance to duos (this is now Live in every region); does a better job of balancing duos and balancing autofills to make Apex matches more balanced in over 90% of cases, but there is still work to be done when the very best players are duoing together
- In the Live Ranked system, the max LP attainable has a soft cap to prevent LP gains from getting too high, which combined with the above issues has led to a less than ideal apex ladder experience
Are you going to reset the ladder?
- There are some set of people who are really vocal about resetting the ladder; we hear the concerns and are taking them seriously
- At the same time, there are a lot of players who will find it very frustrating for all their progress to be reset and while some players will be happy we reset it, others will not, so we’re continuing to evaluate
The changes we’re making
- To reiterate, in the Live Ranked system, the max LP attainable has a soft cap to prevent LP gains from getting too high
- The closer you get to the top of the ladder, you need a higher and higher winrate to climb.
- ie. As a player gets closer and closer to the cap, their gains will approach +10/-30
- We’re going to remove this cap, which will unbound LP on the top end and result in the very best players being able to play and climb to pretty high LP values (+30/-10LP until they start to reach where they should be)
- It will also make LP gains for the entire Apex ladder more stable, but LP cutoffs for Grandmaster and Challenger will also increase when most players no longer have negative LP gains
- We expect most regions to reach peak LP’s of around 3000 and in some of the top end cases, close to 4000
- Grandmaster and Challenger are meant to be very difficult to achieve and it’s intended to be challenging to get there (in the same way that an Emerald player should look at Diamond and feel like it’s going to be difficult to achieve)
- At the same time, we’ve heard your feedback that hitting these ranks feels too daunting and grindy (though there is an expectation that the peak ranks in a game are going to require more dedication to keep, we need to strike a good sweet spot here)
The future
- Us making climbing at apex less daunting caused us to add Grandmaster several years ago and we’re nearing some of those feels now; the skill gaps in Apex are getting too big
- In some regions also, the number of Grandmaster/Challenger slots being too low for how big their region is is also contributing to the cutoffs being very high (EUW being a notable example) -> curious on thoughts on increasing this
- We might also reconsider the top end of how much LP you can gain per win, but need to be considerate of how much this incentivizes smurfing
- Changes to systems like these are a natural part of League being a long-lived game and having growing player skills over time
Thank you for being patient with us as we fix all the things and we’ll continue to work to make the top of ladder climbing experience the best it can be.
English

@doaenel @drewlevin @RiotPhroxzon But you mentioned Chess before, look at *their* Ratings: everyone plateau at some point.
English

@doaenel @drewlevin @RiotPhroxzon Climbing is a result of making progress *faster than the people around you.
And this is not the case for the vast majority of people. Your "feeling" of progress is fake, created by the yearly gap between hidden MMR and displayed Rank.
English




