The Heavy Metal Missionary🪓

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus Side note my searching finds that there were records of Alexander from during his lifetime. Check Babylonian Astronomical Diaries. 1 diary dated 331BC describes a battle nd refers to him as “King of the World” entering Babylon.

@HeavyMissionary @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus 2) interestingly they do not question the existence of Alexander the Great despite a 300 year gap between the great man and the earliest writings we have of/on him.

Luther & Calvin both upheld Mary as Theotokos and affirmed her perpetual virginity. Luther even spoke of her sinlessness. If the Reformers held a higher Marian view than many Protestants today… what changed… and why?

@god_came_down @Svigel I see your point bt my question is why would Jesus rather a church b cold? It really depends on whether cold means as you think. He threatens to spit them out of His mouth, but not the cold. He really doesn’t have anything to say against a cold church in that He won’t spit out.

That is. But the reading that God “councils” Laodicea , the lukewarm church, needs is clearly to refine their faith from indifference to hot. Cold is outright rejection of Christ. Hot is totally giving our hearts to Christ. But lukewarm is indifference. They don’t care either way. Tribulation may force the indifferent to genuinely decide for Christ as Savior. Tribulation refines mediocre faith to a living. Faith. Revelation 6:1-15 is that increasingly sever tribulation refining of faith to prepare the bride for the banquet.

THEOLOGY 101 QUIZ: The first person to teach Daniel’s 70th week is future, and the second half would be dominated by a literal Antichrist in fulfillment of Rev 13 and 2 Thess 2, followed by a Millennium with resurrected saints ruling and tribulation survivors having children was:

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus It’s one thing to write about a dead man based on oral tradition. It’s quite another to write a document claiming to be a dead man a century after his death.

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus Fair point bt r any of the works written abt Alexander claimed 2 be written by Alexander after he was already dead? Thats a huge sticking point 4 me. If the author wud hav claimed knowledge either from an Apostle, which I dont believe was possible, or evn frm a disciple thn maybe

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus Are you familiar with Jovinian?

@HeavyMissionary @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus There are a number of proofs for the doctrine. I have already given quotes from greats such as St Augustine. The fact that such beliefs were strongly held in the Church with no serious questioning of it for so long is notable. If we are to look at beliefs that were seriously

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus Clement of Alexandria defends it BUT he claims a midwife checked her nd declared her still a virgin. Same thng tht ws said n the protoevangelium. Since my understanding is Luke’s account of His birth is frm Mary herself, why no mention of a midwife nd her virginity? Jst shepherds

@HeavyMissionary @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus You are not necessarily going to find written; every oral Tradition. That’s not how the early Church operated. It wasn’t “sola” every single doctrine must be inserted in written form by this date. It was far more organic than that even Sacred Scripture didn’t operate that way.

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus I jst cant find any reference to it by a disciple of an Apostle or a disciple of a disciple of an Apostle. Like I said I literally just pops up at the protoevangelium and Origen and Hippolytus. Why didn’t Irenæus address it? He affirmed the virgin birth bt was silent on perpetual

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus But if it was an oral tradition I wud expect there 2 b a reference to it in some writing. “As so and so said” or “as we were taught by so and so” or anyone writing anything referring to what was orally passed down. Especially something Rome deems as important as this is.

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus To that I wud say the early “fathers” were more roman catholic in their beliefs since they were all frm there to begin with so Im not surprised they would bring some of the doctrines with thm. When u wash something it doesnt jst get clean all at once. Process hs 2 hav a beginning

@HeavyMissionary @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus I suppose one of the reasons I was asking about what tradition you follow is because the Protestant fathers accepted the PVM It seems to me that questioning the gravity of this belief held by all 3 branches of Christianity lends it at least the benefit of a doubt one might have

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus Don’t believe it would impact my belief as it pertains to Christ and the gospel of our salvation. But it would definitely be a start in changing my perception of roman catholicism. Not entirely because this is one of many objections I have, bt it would be a start.

@HeavyMissionary @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus It is a fair enough objection. I see that you are taking the subject very seriously, and you are obviously approaching with intellect. Would accepting the PVM or being agnostic on it impact your over all Christian belief?

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus In De Carne Christi he does, bt you r correct he is not the best counter argument based on how he ended up. And I have issues wth Jerome, especially in his rebuttal of Helvidium. Jerome comes across to me as a bit of a firebrand. Even Augustine had to smooth some ripples he made

@HeavyMissionary @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus 2) … these things and his slippage away from the Church. He never explicitly denied the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, but not does he affirm it. St Jerome corrected some of his writings that moved away from orthodoxy on this position.

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus Except I can’t even find evidence of it being an oral tradition anywhere. It just pops up nd Origen nd Hippolytus start referring to it. And comparing it to the table of contents seems a little apples and oranges to me.

@HeavyMissionary @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus We do not need to hold a written document from the 1st century AD for every doctrine we hold. We also have no written table of contents from that period which formally declares the 27 book NT Canon. But this is not required in order for us to have the declaration in C4AD.

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus How about that it was written a century after James’ death yet the author claimed to be James? That’s pretty good evidence to me. Just sayin.

@HeavyMissionary @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus There is no evidence that this is a fake document. This is a genuine writing from antiquity from the C2AD. It is not Canonical, nor is claimed as such. It holds some important information as do other writings such as the Shepherd of Hermas.

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus What is the primary proof of the doctrine? I cant find anything by anyone before it and its use by Origen and Hippolytus.

@HeavyMissionary @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus The protoevangelium is not the cornerstone of the doctrine. It certainly support this and other doctrines and as such is a citation of early testimonial agreement with the doctrine. But it is not the reason we have it, nor is it the primary proof for the doctrine.

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus Definitely not the archetype for proof text considering it was written a century after the death of the Apostle the writer claimed to b. That’s a huge red flag in itself and anything that comes from it. His view on Joseph’s prior marriage should help kill the whole thing.

@HeavyMissionary @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus Granted it is an early writing which testifies to the PVM. It was not a highly referenced text for many centuries in Europe. It became more widely read in the Renaissance era, so was not referred to as the archetypal oldest proof text for the doctrine historically.

@EcciusMaximus @redeemed_zoomer Respectfully which church father pre Clement of Alexandria, a century after the Apostes, agree with purgatory?

Hey so I know you were just engagement farming but here are the Doctrines they all unanimously agreed on @redeemed_zoomer: 🇻🇦 PAPAL SUPREMACY 🇻🇦 INFANT BAPTISM 🇻🇦 EUCHARIST 🇻🇦 PURGATORY 🇻🇦 INFANT BAPTISM 🇻🇦 PURGATORY 🇻🇦 THEOTOKOS 🇻🇦 CONFESSION 🇻🇦 NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus And I have issues with MacArthur as well just to let you know.

@HeavyMissionary @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus I disagree. I don’t know why you can’t say whether he is authoritative for you? You raised him as part of your case as you said he denied it. So it is legitimate to ask if you see him that way or not?

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus I have to take my wife for an ultrasound of our baby in her belly right now, but I promise I will answer the rest of your current and any future questions when I have a chance later.

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus Authoritative to who is what matters in the same way I would ask if John MacArthur is an authority figure to you? I wud presume u wud say no. I dont hold the papacy as an authority figure over me that’s why I said it doesnt apply to me. RCC does is why I said you not me

@EQualit31385573 @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus Eucharist, nd I hav no problem wth term since its frm a disciple of John, I hold n great esteem. Nt sure I wud consider it tradition since it came frm Jesus directly. Jst hav issues wth the way Rome holds its importance n tht dnt take it u lose yur salvation nd transubstantiation

@HeavyMissionary @NewAntiquarian_ @Aaronaeus Yes, by tradition I am referring to which branch of Christianity do you hold to? I take it some type of modern post Protestantism? So within that there are different positions on salvation, predestination, sacraments, eschatology, etc.