PaperImperium

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PaperImperium

PaperImperium

@ImperiumPaper

Economics Lead at @megaeth. Views and opinions my own.

Katılım Temmuz 2021
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
A major unforced error in crypto is treating technical dashboards as financial dashboards. Nowhere is this as obvious as with TVL of lending protocols. TVL is NOT a substitute for accounting! Let’s look at TVL defined as “Value of all coins held in smart contracts of the protocol”, and how it would treat a bank with the following balance sheet: Deposits (a liability): $100m Loans (an asset): $80m Reserves (an asset): $20m Equity: $10m The TVL of this simplified balance sheet would show up as: $100m deposits - $80m loans + $10m equity = $30m TVL Does that feel accurate to you? It should not, because it structurally undercounts economic activity. In fact, TVL - a technical metric - is treating the bank’s largest asset (its loan book) as a liability and largest liability (its deposits) as an asset! The problem is one of using the wrong tool for the job. TVL counts how many tokens are in a smart contract or group of affiliated smart contracts. That’s it. In its most simple form, TVL is mostly just counting the reserve ratio of the bank (or lending protocol). TVL is not a substitute for actual accounting, and people need to understand this. A deposit on Aave/Morpho/SparkLend/Compound/Euler/Curvance is a liability to that protocol or pool. You could put $1 trillion in deposits onto one of those platforms and TVL would become $1 trillion. But that’s not an indication of economic activity! Now imagine $999.999 billion of that got lent out. TVL has crashed from $1 trillion to $1 million. Looks bad on a chart, right? But now we’re seeing economic activity! There is a reason why TVL is not used outside of crypto - it is a technical metric, not a financial one, and any overlap is coincidental and concentrated in very basic protocols like DEXes.
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
I’ve been busy with other things and haven’t checked in on MakerDAO/Sky in detail for a while. So I perused this announcement and went to the official site where financial statements are published. I think they are misleading (probably by accident). This is a thread about the importance of correct accounting characterizations, so leave now if you’re not left sputtering in dismay by weird financial statements. A big question mark in Sky accounting has always been around the treatment of Primes (previously called Stars, and subDAOs before that). That continues to be the source of the biggest issues I see in their books today. Are Primes subsidiaries or not? Because accounting characterizations are currently made that are inconsistent with any answer to this question. You may notice that Spark-related items are inconsistently treated even amongst themselves. In the loan book, the debt owed to Sky by Spark is treaded as an unadjusted receivable. This treats Spark as *outside* the entity of Sky. The Spark backstop is carried as an internal balance. This treats Spark as *inside* the entity. The SPK token is held in the treasury at fair value. This treats Spark as *outside* the entity AND less than 20% ownership. This treatment ALSO comes with an obligation to book *unrealized* gain/loss in your income statement. This has not been done for SPK, which would have decreased profit over most time periods. In general, the above treatments are incorrect - you should define what is inside or outside Sky once, while Sky’s financials do this on a line-by-line basis. But the inconsistency grows as you view the treatment of Grove, which is a direct comparable to Spark. GROVE token is accounted for as an off-balance-sheet memo. Regardless of whether Spark and Grove are subsidiaries, they certainly deserve consistent treatment since they are the same relationship with Sky. That is not to suggest it is correct to hold GROVE and SPK in the treasury at fair value, though! Sky owns >50% of SPK and >69% of GROVE. This makes them subsidiaries under standard accounting regimes, and Spark and Grove’s own financials should be consolidated into Sky’s, then adjusted for any non-controlling interest. This means the published financials cannot be relied upon, and not just because the SPK and GROVE token values both disappear from the capital and memo sections. The $6.43b of debt to all of the Primes (not just Spark and Grove) is the biggest line item in the whole balance sheet. This collapses into offsetting payables and receivables between the parent and subsidiary, and disappears completely. Similarly, you would usually see the interest income from the Primes disappear as the income to Sky is offset by the expense from the Prime. What you would end up with is the aggregate balance sheet and income statement for Sky + all Primes. After adding 100% of Spark/Grove/etc net assets to Sky’s balance sheet, you have a final task, which is to revisit the equity (“Sky Capital”) section and peel off the ~49% of Spark and ~31% of Grove equity that isn’t owned by Sky (aka non-controlling interest). On the PnL, you also need to adjust for NCI. All of this is to say, the financials being published cannot be relied upon. They incorrectly treat clear subsidiaries as independent entities. They also are inconsistent in how they treat substantially similar relationships (e.g. Spark vs other Primes). Unfortunately, you can’t really fill in the correct numbers without the financial statements of ALL the Primes. 1 of 2
Sky Ecosystem Insights@SkyEcoInsights

x.com/i/article/2074…

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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
Update: @SkyEcoInsights fixed the inconsistency in how Spark and Grove are treated in the financials. But they didn’t fix the error of not consolidating majority-owned Primes - so the financials are flattering in ways they should not be. When you majority own/control another entity, you generally need to consolidate that entity’s financial with your own. Otherwise you get distorted information. The SPK and GROVE tokens marked to market are pretty thin comfort if the loans to Spark or Grove go bad (and also very illiquid besides)
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper

I’ve been busy with other things and haven’t checked in on MakerDAO/Sky in detail for a while. So I perused this announcement and went to the official site where financial statements are published. I think they are misleading (probably by accident). This is a thread about the importance of correct accounting characterizations, so leave now if you’re not left sputtering in dismay by weird financial statements. A big question mark in Sky accounting has always been around the treatment of Primes (previously called Stars, and subDAOs before that). That continues to be the source of the biggest issues I see in their books today. Are Primes subsidiaries or not? Because accounting characterizations are currently made that are inconsistent with any answer to this question. You may notice that Spark-related items are inconsistently treated even amongst themselves. In the loan book, the debt owed to Sky by Spark is treaded as an unadjusted receivable. This treats Spark as *outside* the entity of Sky. The Spark backstop is carried as an internal balance. This treats Spark as *inside* the entity. The SPK token is held in the treasury at fair value. This treats Spark as *outside* the entity AND less than 20% ownership. This treatment ALSO comes with an obligation to book *unrealized* gain/loss in your income statement. This has not been done for SPK, which would have decreased profit over most time periods. In general, the above treatments are incorrect - you should define what is inside or outside Sky once, while Sky’s financials do this on a line-by-line basis. But the inconsistency grows as you view the treatment of Grove, which is a direct comparable to Spark. GROVE token is accounted for as an off-balance-sheet memo. Regardless of whether Spark and Grove are subsidiaries, they certainly deserve consistent treatment since they are the same relationship with Sky. That is not to suggest it is correct to hold GROVE and SPK in the treasury at fair value, though! Sky owns >50% of SPK and >69% of GROVE. This makes them subsidiaries under standard accounting regimes, and Spark and Grove’s own financials should be consolidated into Sky’s, then adjusted for any non-controlling interest. This means the published financials cannot be relied upon, and not just because the SPK and GROVE token values both disappear from the capital and memo sections. The $6.43b of debt to all of the Primes (not just Spark and Grove) is the biggest line item in the whole balance sheet. This collapses into offsetting payables and receivables between the parent and subsidiary, and disappears completely. Similarly, you would usually see the interest income from the Primes disappear as the income to Sky is offset by the expense from the Prime. What you would end up with is the aggregate balance sheet and income statement for Sky + all Primes. After adding 100% of Spark/Grove/etc net assets to Sky’s balance sheet, you have a final task, which is to revisit the equity (“Sky Capital”) section and peel off the ~49% of Spark and ~31% of Grove equity that isn’t owned by Sky (aka non-controlling interest). On the PnL, you also need to adjust for NCI. All of this is to say, the financials being published cannot be relied upon. They incorrectly treat clear subsidiaries as independent entities. They also are inconsistent in how they treat substantially similar relationships (e.g. Spark vs other Primes). Unfortunately, you can’t really fill in the correct numbers without the financial statements of ALL the Primes. 1 of 2

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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
You’re close! What left was “fyne gold” which just so happened to also be the “good money” at the time. The melt value of the coins is what Gresham was remarking upon. This was more complex than “bad drives out good”. It’s a story of “bad circulates only where the government forces it.” No government power? No Gresham’s Law. This is why it only applies to *legal tender* competing currencies. The “bad” money doesn’t outcompete the “good” so much as the “good” money is filtered out over time as it finds its way into hands that demand it. So to recap: Gresham’s Law only applies to legal tender. It only applies to the extent a government can coerce use of the “bad” money. It’s really not a story of money at all, but a story of financial repression and state capacity.
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Nixon LB 💀
Nixon LB 💀@NixonLB·
@ImperiumPaper wait but then importers did need the older coins? then they left circulation by being exported because English merchants accepted debased coins at face value but the Dutch did not. that seems very much "bad money drives out good"
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
People invoke Gresham’s Law on here all the time, and I suspect ~0 of them (even economists) have actually gone back to read what Gresham said. Most invocations of Sir Thomas Gresham take the wrong lesson, and I see it a lot, so let’s sort it out. What did Gresham say in his correspondence to Queen Elizabeth I in 1558? He was explaining why the circulating coinage was primarily the heavily debased coins of her late brother and father. But people did not hold onto or hoard the older, more valuable coins. “all your fyne gold was conveyed out of this your realm” should be the dead giveaway to anyone parsing the Elizabethan English of the letter that he was explaining all the sound currency had been exported (to Flanders and Holland, primarily). He explains also that this is a phenomenon of the legal tender status of the coinage. Foreign partners were under no obligation to accept underweight coins, so the best coins had to be used instead, causing a net outflow of gold and silver to the Continent from England. This is NOT the story of “bad money drives out good” that gets told on Crypto Twitter, for a couple reasons. First, Gresham’s Law ONLY applies to legal tender money. Private currencies nearly always have to compete by being better than alternatives. It is only because the heavy hand of the law compelled acceptance of Henry VII’s and Edward VI’s crappy coins that could circulate at face value. Second, part of what was in play is the Alchian-Allen Theory, which explains why the best apples, best seafood, best whatever, are often exported and not available in their local markets. Transport of money was not trivial in terms of costs, and it is less expensive to ship a single chest of “good” coins than two chests of “bad” coins across the English Channel to trade partners who will discount the “bad” coins to a lower denomination. This is why large denominations existed in the first place, and why small denomination money has usually been undersupplied across all of history. Fixed transport and production costs make it relatively more expensive. So what lessons does Gresham’s Law have for crypto? Not a ton, unless some government or very powerful group enforces two stablecoins to have the same face value, despite differing actual values. Then you see those inside the ringfence of that government get left holding more and more “bad” money as the “good” money is used up trading with partners who aren’t compelled to accept the “bad” money.
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
@hiamysg836 You are correct that the statement is bogus. Most modern currencies are CDP stablecoins - most money is created by bank loans and most loans are secured. CDP stablecoins (bank money) has outcompeted alternatives for a reason, and it’s not lack of efficiency
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sg🗿⛅️🪁
sg🗿⛅️🪁@hiamysg836·
1/10 Why do I often see comments saying that "CDP stablecoins are capital inefficient"? My understanding is that comparing a CDP position with simply holding or minting a fiat-backed stablecoin may be comparing two different use cases.
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
Corollary: People invoke “fiat money” as a term without understanding it’s not usually true fiat. All modern money is CDP money created through commercial bank lending. Very little money is literally unbacked fiat in the modern era. In fact it is generally at or near zero in the US. The main sources of true fiat USD is when the federal reserve enacts quantitative easing by, for example, creating $100 to buy a $100 asset, and then that asset falling in value. Modern governments generally do not simply print from thin air, although they certainly could. And being asset backed certainly doesn’t insulate a currency from other shenanigans.
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper

People invoke Gresham’s Law on here all the time, and I suspect ~0 of them (even economists) have actually gone back to read what Gresham said. Most invocations of Sir Thomas Gresham take the wrong lesson, and I see it a lot, so let’s sort it out. What did Gresham say in his correspondence to Queen Elizabeth I in 1558? He was explaining why the circulating coinage was primarily the heavily debased coins of her late brother and father. But people did not hold onto or hoard the older, more valuable coins. “all your fyne gold was conveyed out of this your realm” should be the dead giveaway to anyone parsing the Elizabethan English of the letter that he was explaining all the sound currency had been exported (to Flanders and Holland, primarily). He explains also that this is a phenomenon of the legal tender status of the coinage. Foreign partners were under no obligation to accept underweight coins, so the best coins had to be used instead, causing a net outflow of gold and silver to the Continent from England. This is NOT the story of “bad money drives out good” that gets told on Crypto Twitter, for a couple reasons. First, Gresham’s Law ONLY applies to legal tender money. Private currencies nearly always have to compete by being better than alternatives. It is only because the heavy hand of the law compelled acceptance of Henry VII’s and Edward VI’s crappy coins that could circulate at face value. Second, part of what was in play is the Alchian-Allen Theory, which explains why the best apples, best seafood, best whatever, are often exported and not available in their local markets. Transport of money was not trivial in terms of costs, and it is less expensive to ship a single chest of “good” coins than two chests of “bad” coins across the English Channel to trade partners who will discount the “bad” coins to a lower denomination. This is why large denominations existed in the first place, and why small denomination money has usually been undersupplied across all of history. Fixed transport and production costs make it relatively more expensive. So what lessons does Gresham’s Law have for crypto? Not a ton, unless some government or very powerful group enforces two stablecoins to have the same face value, despite differing actual values. Then you see those inside the ringfence of that government get left holding more and more “bad” money as the “good” money is used up trading with partners who aren’t compelled to accept the “bad” money.

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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
@Orbit_XBT If you live in that country you’re exposed no matter the currency. Currency specifically: most money is backed by private lending, as most money is created by the private banking sector
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Orbit
Orbit@Orbit_XBT·
@ImperiumPaper “They have no competitive advantages over existing major currencies” Really even if a currency is backed by a government with 500% debt/gdp ratio? How is not being exposed to a governments debt pile not an advantage?
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
Dollar, euro, pound, yuan, and yen. Four of the five most-used currencies share a common ancestor, and the outlier (pound) is losing ground. Currencies evolve based on selective pressures, and descendants of the silver dollar are evolution’s favored children. Stablecoins have a bright future as money. ETH and BTC are assets, but not money material - they have no competitive advantages over existing major currencies. I’m happy to debate this on a podcast or spaces if anyone actually believes ETH or BTC ever had a path to being money. It would be a fun discussion, and really interested to learn counterfactual evidence. But come with real arguments, not memes, please.
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper

Strong disagree. ETH (and BTC) never had a credible path to becoming money. Successful currencies that are arbitrary values are as rare as hen’s teeth. It’s a dead end path very early in the evolutionary tree of money. Commodity money arose because it linked units of account to tangible goods, like grains or metals. Book money, used as abstract units of account, still tied back to this - the £ was originally a pound of silver; the koku was ~330 lbs of rice. Coinage, and the shenanigans related to it, created a Cambrian explosion that eventually resulted in a mass extinction event, with most of the successful currencies today sharing a common ancestor. The Bohemian silver dollar birthed many other thalers, tolars, and dollars. Including the Spanish dollar and Austrian (Maria Theresa) thaler. The US dollar, Yen, Yuan, Won, Mexican pesos (5 rather than 1) all descend from the Spanish Silver Dollar. Also the now defunct Straits Dollar. The Straits Dollar gave us Ringgit, HK dollar, Singaporean dollar. The Ethiopian Birr and Saudi Riyal descend from the Austrian silver thaler. And of course the US dollar led to NZ, Australian, Canadian dollars, which have subsequently floated away from their launch values. There’s a whole host of currently USD-pegged currencies, from Caribbean dollars to Jordanian dinars. To say nothing of fully dollarized economies. Even the Euro can trace an unbroken series of redenominations and predecessor currencies back to that silver coin in Bohemia. The Russian ruble married into the family tree when Peter the Great aligned the silver content of the ruble to the silver dollar. Central Asia and Slavic currencies mostly descend from the Soviet ruble, which comes from the Russian ruble. The original silver dollar and its descendants are evolution’s favored child, and the only significant currency family outside of the dollar is the rupee, which had the benefit of being invented roughly the same time and India already being an economic center of gravity. Sterling still has a small family, but has mostly lost members to the dollar family, from America to various dirhams/dinars that were born pegged to £ but now to $. How was ETH (or BTC), completely alien to any preexisting unit of account or store of value, ever going to be *money*? The last 500 years have been the utter and still-growing dominance (hello stablecoins!) of the descendants of that silver dollar in Bohemia. “ETH is money” was never a credible case and anyone who believed it was needs to be more familiar with money and the history of money.

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PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
@zooko It’s not even something he himself called a law or theory. Some guy in the 1800s did that
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zooko🛡🦓🦓🦓 ⓩ
@ImperiumPaper Yes! Thank you! God, I'm so tired of people telling me that Gresham's Law is that inflationary (i.e. value-losing) currencies, e.g. USD drive out non-inflationary currencies, e.g. ZEC.
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Thomas Bate
Thomas Bate@tjbate2000·
you can borrow against SOV, buy stablecoins and make payments to third parties and not touch any bank or the fractional reserve system. The only touchpoint with traditional finance and banking is that the stablecoin issuer had to buy the sovereign debt to issue the stablecoin (and keeps all the interest thanks to Congress). Otherwise, my paying third parties by borrowing against my SOV collateral has no relationship to fractional reserve banking at all. Bankless
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
@tjbate2000 The moment they became money, it would be issued exactly like fiat today. By banks.
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Thomas Bate
Thomas Bate@tjbate2000·
Millions of third parties will accept digital tokens equally. The difference is that SOV tokens like ETH and TAO (and BTC) have limited issuance, and fiat does not. A few well-designed SOV digital tokens like ETH and TAO will gradually 'push' 'bad' fiat out of circulation, by appreciating in fiat price. They will serve as collateral for borrowing to fund transactions spending in stablecoins. Fiat-denonominated sovereign debt will 'back' stablecoins. Stablecoin issuers already hold vast portfolios of sovereign debt.
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
@tjbate2000 Untrue. Its value is primarily that third parties will accept it for goods and services.
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Thomas Bate
Thomas Bate@tjbate2000·
@ImperiumPaper the only real value behind fiat is that issuing governments will accept it in payment for tax liabilities.
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
@tjbate2000 Most fiat is not backed by government debt. It’s backed by private lending. Your second point seems very speculative to me.
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Thomas Bate
Thomas Bate@tjbate2000·
First: the government debt 'backing' fiat (of all fiat) is no good because it is unlimited in volume, cannot be enforced as to payment (especially capital controlled yuan), and the amount of debt outstanding will always grow. Effectively, continuous debasement of the backing is debasement of the money. Second: people are spending more fiat than digital assets BECAUSE those who understand digital SOV know that rather than spend digital assets, you borrow against them, buy stable coins for transacting and save fees while preserving some privacy (more in future). So transactions use of fiat and fiat-denominated/backed tokens will always be higher. That does NOT mean that yield-bearing digital stores of value (SOVs) like ETH and TAO are somehow the 'bad' money. Fiat is the 'bad' money. Asset bubbles globally are the proof.
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
Let’s slow down here for a moment. Most “fiat” money is indeed backed, because it is debt. When I take out a mortgage, that creates new money, which is backed by the loan the bank holds. And even some non-commercial bank money is asset backed (QE injects money by buying assets). You can disagree if the backing is good, but the vast majority of what people call dollars, pounds, yen, etc is indeed backed by assets. Second: People invoke Gresham’s Law without reading what he actually said to the Queen. He was speaking about a phenomenon of all the “good” currency being exported to trade partners because the melt value was still high on that money, and that “bad” money was circulating domestically because it was not accepted abroad as readily as the old, less-debased coinage
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Thomas Bate
Thomas Bate@tjbate2000·
All of these fiat monies are being constantly debased through ever higher rates of issuance. That is why the stock market, most good property (even in China) and gold and silver are all at all-time highs. Because the value of fiat money is at all time lows. Because fiat money is unbacked and ruthlessly and purposely continuously debased, these currencies are always losing value. Greshams Law (look it up) says that these are all bad money, not good money. The fact that people prefer to spend debased money does not make the debasing money 'better' money. The opposite is true. ETH will have net zero issuance forever and TAO issuance is 21 million tops. BTC is no longer the best SOV and anti-debasement trade.
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amandatyler
amandatyler@amandatylerj·
The license returns 10% of seq fees back to the DAO, which funds the engineers maintaining and improving the platform. That feels like a pretty fair exchange for infra businesses are building billion-dollar products on, IMHO. Contention for blockspace can be extremely lucrative too (priority gas auctions etc.) but it’s a less predictable revenue stream than a direct participation in network success. We already see folks like OP leaning into trad SaaS SLAs bc gas opps just aren’t enough especially if your network is not hosting opps for revenue ie contentious blockspace.
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amandatyler
amandatyler@amandatylerj·
“Robinhood will leave, like Base did.” even if they did, which I don’t think they would because the stack is built to meet their needs, they don’t just get to fork the stack and walk away. the @arbitrum platform is licensed under a community license. If Robinhood forks the repo, they still owe the DAO 10%, which IMO is fair! fully open sourced is cute, but if we want to build sustainable business models around infrastructure, it doesn’t work. @Offchain gets it, so stoked for this team.
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PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
And just like that, MegaETH’s @aave deployment enters an unsubsidized, sustainable era, only a calendar quarter after TGE. We see today a completely borrower-funded lending APY on par with Ethereum Aave. Rewards distributed by Merkl had been tapering for some time, as the deployment ended up with excess liquidity compared to demand, and with its major collateral, which could not support Aave’s targeted 90% utilization. The tapering of those rewards finally hit the elastic point in some large LPers’ demand to lend USDM, resulting in a more rational size. Simultaneously, the introduction of stcUSD from @CapApp as collateral meant there was finally a yield bearing collateral able to sustain borrowing at the traditional Aave utilization target (borrow ~4%), which boosted rates as well. There are a couple lessons I think we should take away from this. 1) In a post-Kelp world, it’s a long process for Aave to onboard new collateral assets. I personally think they need to find ways to streamline this, because much of Morpho’s success has been the ceding of vast swaths of the lending market to them voluntarily. This is good and bad for them - they have kept their nose clean about onboarding *financially weak* assets, unlike the independent curators. But it also leads them to existential risk-level concentration for rail risks, as we saw with Kelp. An Aave with 50 collaterals that builds in an expectation of some losses as part of the business is stronger than an Aave with 10 collaterals and needs to seek external financing in my opinion. 2) This is a low-yield environment, and even many moderate-risk assets simply can’t support borrowing even below the risk-free rate. (s)USDe is an excellent example. You have what is a multi-strategy, actively managed credit fund, and it can only pay a few bps premium over a 4-week tbill? Even if you are willing to sit with that risk-reward on the belief the team will bring you better days in the future, it’s just not an asset you can borrow against at any reasonable rate. Even assets like syrupUSDC/T and stcUSD only get you to a modest rate in lending markets. 3) On rewards: MegaETH Aave rewards worked fairly rationally, but not perfectly so. Initially begun in a world where Aave could/would onboard multiple collaterals and e-modes, it was rational for a new deployment to err on the side of oversupply of stablecoin inventory, since no supply means no lending. (s)USDe also had higher yield 3 months ago, and a softening of the returns from the workhorse collateral on the deployment made the slow speed of post-Kelp asset listing even more painful. 4) Collateral uniqueness. For any market not named Ethereum, Aave really needs more differentiation. stcUSD is only listed in MegaETH Aave, so there is no other venue. But when you look at the most recent deployment, on Monad, you only see MM USD as a novel asset, which is not yield bearing. You can see the ossification of Aave risk tolerance in real time, as Monad launched with only familiar assets otherwise. That those familiar assets listed even in the face of literally zero liquidity is an indicator that Aave risk tolerance is very low, and makes the future of non-Ethereum deployments a question mark. If those deployments only offer leverage against assets all competitors take, and any given deployment is unlikely to have an asset different from the mainnet Aave, what is the competitive advantage? Add in that the typical interest rate curve on stablecoins only gets lenders to the risk-free rate at 90% utilization, and there is no room for a risk premium, except in the form of rewards. And all rewards have to be planned with their sunset in mind. But mostly? Low rate environments are just really challenging for everyone until DeFi discovers a way to lend to someone for purposes other than leveraged crypto exposure (whether asset price or asset yield)
PaperImperium tweet media
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PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
@PhiMarHal I don’t agree, but it’s a comment that will have me scrolling back to check
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PhiMarHal
PhiMarHal@PhiMarHal·
@ImperiumPaper I can debate your entire account with one term: survivorship bias. You post thought-provoking stuff, but no matter the topic, finance, dating, anything... It seems to have this fallacy underpinning it in some fashion.
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
@ryanberckmans SoV is very different from money, and I don’t have a well formed opinion on ETH or BTC as store of value in the future
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@ryanberckmans·
@ImperiumPaper There is a great case for ETH becoming a very valuable non-debt SoV: Ethereum is on track to get insanely huge and globally systemically important. Whether or not somebody thinks this is the same thing as "becoming money" is not what I care about. I care about ETHUSD and ETHBTC
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
Strong disagree. ETH (and BTC) never had a credible path to becoming money. Successful currencies that are arbitrary values are as rare as hen’s teeth. It’s a dead end path very early in the evolutionary tree of money. Commodity money arose because it linked units of account to tangible goods, like grains or metals. Book money, used as abstract units of account, still tied back to this - the £ was originally a pound of silver; the koku was ~330 lbs of rice. Coinage, and the shenanigans related to it, created a Cambrian explosion that eventually resulted in a mass extinction event, with most of the successful currencies today sharing a common ancestor. The Bohemian silver dollar birthed many other thalers, tolars, and dollars. Including the Spanish dollar and Austrian (Maria Theresa) thaler. The US dollar, Yen, Yuan, Won, Mexican pesos (5 rather than 1) all descend from the Spanish Silver Dollar. Also the now defunct Straits Dollar. The Straits Dollar gave us Ringgit, HK dollar, Singaporean dollar. The Ethiopian Birr and Saudi Riyal descend from the Austrian silver thaler. And of course the US dollar led to NZ, Australian, Canadian dollars, which have subsequently floated away from their launch values. There’s a whole host of currently USD-pegged currencies, from Caribbean dollars to Jordanian dinars. To say nothing of fully dollarized economies. Even the Euro can trace an unbroken series of redenominations and predecessor currencies back to that silver coin in Bohemia. The Russian ruble married into the family tree when Peter the Great aligned the silver content of the ruble to the silver dollar. Central Asia and Slavic currencies mostly descend from the Soviet ruble, which comes from the Russian ruble. The original silver dollar and its descendants are evolution’s favored child, and the only significant currency family outside of the dollar is the rupee, which had the benefit of being invented roughly the same time and India already being an economic center of gravity. Sterling still has a small family, but has mostly lost members to the dollar family, from America to various dirhams/dinars that were born pegged to £ but now to $. How was ETH (or BTC), completely alien to any preexisting unit of account or store of value, ever going to be *money*? The last 500 years have been the utter and still-growing dominance (hello stablecoins!) of the descendants of that silver dollar in Bohemia. “ETH is money” was never a credible case and anyone who believed it was needs to be more familiar with money and the history of money.
Dan Robinson@danrobinson

I think "ETH is money" was always the best case for its value, and people who couldn't grok it ended up undermining Ethereum

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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
@drGhostinOO7 @aave Actively working to get Maple to enable MegaETH. Feel free to ask them, because it would help demonstrate demand.
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b!tchcoin
b!tchcoin@drGhostinOO7·
@ImperiumPaper @aave Headline apy is not useful, the derivation of yield and assets quality + counterparty disclosure should also be a factor. With tokenized funds, why is stcusd a choice megaUSD have taken? These are similar yield of us treasuries so cap isn’t as good a counterparty than say maple?
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PaperImperium
PaperImperium@ImperiumPaper·
@jaypatel @aave Native is hard in DeFi. You need an issuer or a custodian in between. So there’s some additional friction. Good source of demand though, I agree
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Jay
Jay@jaypatel·
@ImperiumPaper @aave There is plenty of demand to borrow stables against native bitcoin at premium rates
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