Jason Abaluck

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Jason Abaluck

Jason Abaluck

@Jabaluck

Professor of Economics at Yale SOM

New Haven, CT Katılım Nisan 2009
481 Takip Edilen15.2K Takipçiler
James Harrigan
James Harrigan@jamesharrigan·
@Jabaluck @RadishHarmers Jason, I didn't interpret the positive statement about incentives as justifying a 100% marginal tax rate above $10 million, which would be dumb. But a very high marginal tax rate < 100% (say, 80% or even 90%) that kicks in at $10 million might not discourage much if any effort.
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
This is a very bad take that would not be endorsed by any mainstream academic economist. It would seriously impede the development of large firms, which likely play a central role in productivity growth and helping low-income countries reduce poverty @RadishHarmers
Sridhar Ramesh@RadishHarmers

It doesn't matter if you're a moral person. You still don't deserve to be a billionaire. No individual deserves so much more unilateral power than others, which is harmful to society, and nothing useful is lost in incentive difference between $10 million or so and billionaire.

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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
The distinction in my view is whether the claims are prior to any institution set up for some social purpose. e.g. we might want to set up institutions that reward people for behaving ethically towards other people -- they would then have a "legitimate expectation" that they should receive this reward. However, there is no sense in which people who work hard or exhibit courage deserve reward per se, outside of any reason to setup an institution that rewards that behavior.
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
@jamesharrigan @RadishHarmers I think the normative statement is reasonable and the positive statement indefensible. $10 million is not very large for a firm. If owners had no incentive to spend their time trying to grow firms further at that stage, we would see few large, efficient firms.
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James Harrigan
James Harrigan@jamesharrigan·
@Jabaluck @RadishHarmers There are two separate statements here, one normative and one positive. No comment on the normative statement about who "deserves" to be a billionaire, but the positive statement about incentives seems plausible to me.
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
That not as bad as $10 million but I don't think anyone would advocate for a cap with a 100% marginal tax rate at $1 billion except as a second best policy with the (dubious) rationale that a better policy couldn't marshal public support. The view that wealth taxes should be high enough that it's almost impossible to accumulate $1 billion would probably be advocated by a few, although still a very small fraction.
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Ryan Cummings
Ryan Cummings@weakinstrument·
@instrumenthull @Jabaluck @RadishHarmers Idk about $10 million but I think there's a lot of respectable economists who would say there's probably pretty limited incentive effects once wealth exceeds $1 billion? In fact I think to argue that there is requires some extreme assumptions on bequests and curvature of MUc?
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
If you think his analysis omitted "inequality" that then you did not understand the article and you should have GPT walk you through how economists think about social welfare functions and redistribution, how this relates to Shleifer's argument about the efficiency of private/public provision, what the "2nd best" argument for public ownership as a means of redistribution might be and what assumptions are required to support it. I don't have time to continue this conversation.
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
@instrumenthull @RadishHarmers I think you only mood affiliate with this view and wouldn't defend a $10 million cap as policy if asked to do so in a roomful of other economists you respected.
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Leveling-Down Justice Warrior
Leveling-Down Justice Warrior@xianzhongreturn·
@Jabaluck @RadishHarmers For the various flaws of classical state ownership that it points out, I think some are probably valid. But it seems entirely beside the main point. It is somewhat like using certain problems that occurred during slave uprisings in some historical period as a defense of slavery
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
The problem is that you are reading for vibes instead of content. Shleifer has a specific political bent. I don't completely share that. Stop reading the paper as an argument for private provision, and reread it as a theory of when public vs. private provision is desirable -- the latter is what economists broadly agree on.
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Leveling-Down Justice Warrior
Leveling-Down Justice Warrior@xianzhongreturn·
@Jabaluck @RadishHarmers I don't want to be disrepsectful, but the entire unspoken premise of this paper is just there isn't anything wrong with Inequality, but if you adopted such strong premise of course anything else could follow? If decrease the weight of victim to zero, human sacrifice is also good
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
@xianzhongreturn @RadishHarmers I don't know what "Socialism" with a capital "S" denotes, but there is a well-established theory of when government vs. private provision of social goods is desirable. Start here: aeaweb.org/articles?id=10… (the article is excellent but a little tendentiously written for my taste)
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
@xianzhongreturn @RadishHarmers You might think that, but it is not a view held by any mainstream academic economist. In the IGM poll for example, 0% would reject private ownership despite disagreement about many political issues.
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Leveling-Down Justice Warrior
Leveling-Down Justice Warrior@xianzhongreturn·
@Jabaluck @RadishHarmers Also there are lots of works about Egalitarianism and Resource planning in economics journals, so it's reasonable to infer at least some of the authors would fundamentally reject the very ethical premises of private ownership.
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Itai Sher
Itai Sher@itaisher·
@Jabaluck @RadishHarmers I don’t think it is incoherent—I think it’s important actually—but it should not be the sole basis for policy.
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Manoel Galdino
Manoel Galdino@mgaldino·
@Jabaluck @RadishHarmers There’s the economic take and the political take. The political take is expertise of political scientists, not economists. It’s a signal of a malfunctioning democracy that more redistribution is not happening. I’d think that’s a mainstream position among political scientists.
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
@itaisher @RadishHarmers Yes, I agree with Rawls on the ethical take. Dessert is an incoherent basis for distributive justice, and legitimate expectations are the relevant concept.
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Itai Sher
Itai Sher@itaisher·
@Jabaluck @RadishHarmers You have to distinguish the claim about desert from the one about incentives. The former is an ethical claim which is not particularly within the expertise of economists.
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
Yes, but those authoritarians are making shit up and there is not in general any reason to believe them. If we had a choice between living in poverty or being wealthier but having Elon Musk dictate how we spend every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, then there would be a real dilemma and we'd have to decide what price we would pay for freedom. But that's not remotely the current situation. Billionaires have disproportionate influence leading to many bad outcomes (at least, bad presently, they were probably net positive when the most influential billionaire was Bill Gates instead of Trump), but the badness of these outcomes is not of the same order of magnitude as the harms a $10 million cap would impose on economic development.
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Dr. ELL
Dr. ELL@DrellLabs·
@Jabaluck @RadishHarmers Not disagreeing, but the kind of justification that: extreme concentration of power is justifiable if it plays a central role in growth and poverty alleviation, is the same justification authoritarian countries use to reject democracy and freedoms.
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
Yes, on the last point I agree we don't have proven methods to change fertility dramatically (but that's different from saying that the cost-benefit doesn't look good for the ones we have). Asking how we can accomodate to fertility declines seems worthwhile. On the first point, this is not workable for the same reason economists think central planning is unworkable. "Ideas" refers to a much broader range of phenomenon than you seem to imply. It's not like there are 10 categories of ideas and if the federal government just subsidizes those directly, we get the right amount of ideas. Likewise, no matter how much you subsidize 10 million people or how good their incentives are, they won't produce ideas that are comparable in the aggregate to 10 billion people. It's of course correct that not all ideas are good. But over the long-term, the good ideas are more likely to get adopted than not, which is arguably the principle engine that has driven massive reductions in poverty, increases in literacy, increases in life expectancy, etc... Of course, there are people who argue, "Who cares about growth in the first place?" and those people also would not care about the role of population in generating ideas. But I think those people mostly are comparing the present to a past that never existed.
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Lydia DePillis
Lydia DePillis@lydiadepillis·
@Jabaluck On your ideas for raising fertility, well, a lot of that has been tried with underwhelming effects. Some of it, like $$$ for families, may be good for its own sake. Other tactics, like the honors you propose, are the kind of social engineering I'm not sure I want to live with.
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
The main downsides of lower population are invisible if you look only at specific people or localities @lydiadepillis. The fundamental problem is that: population -> ideas -> technology -> economic growth. So lower population will slow down economic growth.
Lydia DePillis@lydiadepillis

Personal news: I am writing a book! The conversation around birthrates has grown toxic. The truth is that fertility decline is mostly a consequence of greater freedom and opportunity, and seems unlikely to reverse. We can deal with the downsides -- if we confront them head on.

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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck

These kinds of macroeconomic effects are hard to study empirically since technology diffuses across borders so a truly clean experiment would require multiple separate earths where we could randomize population. However, it's also very hard to write down internally consistent models that account for the basic stylized facts about economic growth, but where some counterveiling benefit of smaller populations offsets the value of population in generating more non-rival ideas. It's not that there aren't possible counterveiling forces, the issue is that the population -> non-rival idea mechanism is very natural and powerful. We know there is also a quantity-quality trade-off in terms of investing in children. But if you think the quantity-quality trade-off outweighs the "more ideas" channel, try to write down a formal model with any kind of realistic parameter estimates that leads to this conclusion! (or ask GPT pro to do this, then ask GPT pro to critique it's own model and ask whether it believes the conclusion). I think you'll find it's very difficult to get anything defensible that implies this. On the point about fertility being hard to change, I half agree. I think you are right that asking, "What accomodations reduce the badness of low fertility rates?" is an important question. I much prefer that as the focus of the book! But: a) the return to policies targetted to increase fertility (e.g. direct payments if you have children) may be quite high and b) there are policies beyond the historical variation that we've seen that would likely lead to very large changes in fertility. e.g. suppose China decided that every family with 3 or more children was an "honored family" that would get access to superior healthcare, admissions advantages at schools and colleges, wage subsidies, etc... So you're being too fatalistic about this.

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Laurence Wilse-Samson
Laurence Wilse-Samson@lwsamson·
@Jabaluck @lydiadepillis The evidence on these links is not super strong, and investing in ideas directly is likely higher return spending than on higher fertility which we don't really know how to do.
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Jason Abaluck
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck·
Jason Abaluck@Jabaluck

These kinds of macroeconomic effects are hard to study empirically since technology diffuses across borders so a truly clean experiment would require multiple separate earths where we could randomize population. However, it's also very hard to write down internally consistent models that account for the basic stylized facts about economic growth, but where some counterveiling benefit of smaller populations offsets the value of population in generating more non-rival ideas. It's not that there aren't possible counterveiling forces, the issue is that the population -> non-rival idea mechanism is very natural and powerful. We know there is also a quantity-quality trade-off in terms of investing in children. But if you think the quantity-quality trade-off outweighs the "more ideas" channel, try to write down a formal model with any kind of realistic parameter estimates that leads to this conclusion! (or ask GPT pro to do this, then ask GPT pro to critique it's own model and ask whether it believes the conclusion). I think you'll find it's very difficult to get anything defensible that implies this. On the point about fertility being hard to change, I half agree. I think you are right that asking, "What accomodations reduce the badness of low fertility rates?" is an important question. I much prefer that as the focus of the book! But: a) the return to policies targetted to increase fertility (e.g. direct payments if you have children) may be quite high and b) there are policies beyond the historical variation that we've seen that would likely lead to very large changes in fertility. e.g. suppose China decided that every family with 3 or more children was an "honored family" that would get access to superior healthcare, admissions advantages at schools and colleges, wage subsidies, etc... So you're being too fatalistic about this.

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anonymous mouse
anonymous mouse@anonymoostafa·
@Jabaluck @lydiadepillis The causal relationship between population growth and gdp per capita is not at all well identified and I don't know why economists keep talking like it is.
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