Jeff Ray

Sometimes the person you'd take a bullet for is the one behind the gun.

@newstart_2024 Bans on who you can marry, whether it was interclass, interfaith, or interracial, were always because it was “best for society”. Do we want consenting adults to have the freedom to choose for themselves who to marry? It’s time to let polygamist have that same freedom.

Our species norm is polygyny: 80% of cultures historically let high-status men hoard wives while low-status men get nothing. Christianity (inherited from Rome) forced monogamy for 2000 years. Now we've mostly ditched it—and we're sliding back toward the old pattern. Louise Perry: Lifting the monogamous restriction produces worse outcomes—higher crime, domestic violence, economic inequality. Monogamy is better for women and low-status men. Monogamy isn't "natural"—it's an engineered cultural upgrade that tamed inequality and violence. Do you think monogamy is worth defending even if it's not the "default" human pattern? Or are we better off returning to the species norm? Your take 👇

@ScottMa82887297 @Flyntstoned710 @PenetantZynner @PattyMurray Agreed. When interclass, interfaith, or interracial marriages were legalized, many claimed society would suffer, but society is still trudging along. Given the high divorce rate among monogamous modern marriages, I don’t think polygamy will be a big problem.

@Flyntstoned710 @JeffRayChirps @PenetantZynner @PattyMurray I think that argument is no longer persuasive, if it ever was. Polygamy is practiced by too a small of a fraction of society to be destabilizing. Also I have not heard that areas where it was practiced were less stable.

We are a secular democracy. If you don't like the freedom of religion, you are welcome to move somewhere else. In America, you can be Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or anything else. It's written into our Constitution. 🇺🇸🇺🇸 Get lost with this garbage.

@Janeos22 @richvillodas Nowhere in scripture is polygamy condemned. When It’s mentioned at all, it’s either descriptive or a regulation. It’s very probable some of the earliest converts were polygamists, and there is historical evidence of Christian polygamy from the 2nd century.

@richvillodas You are not a Christian if you are okay with your neighbors endorsing and performing child marriage, woman beating and polygamy.

I’m a Christian pastor. I have Muslim friends. This is despicable. And as Christians, if the only religious liberty we fight for is Christianity, we have failed to love our neighbors as ourselves, as our Lord commanded us to.

@ScottMa82887297 @PenetantZynner @PattyMurray I don’t understand how polygamy is still illegal. It’s legal to live with multiple women, and have children by them all, so long as you don’t actually use the word “wives” or say you are married. How is that not a clear violation of the 1st Amendment?

@PenetantZynner @PattyMurray Of course not. Religious practices cannot violate the laws of the United states. No human sacrifice, no child brides, mo polygamy. But all religions are legal.

@LPNational Nobody gains more daylight with permanent DST. If you try, businesses that depend on the sun (agriculture, construction, etc) will simply change their start times back to match the sun. Then other businesses will gradually follow. If you want more daylight, talk to your boss.

ABOLISH DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME Studies show a roughly 6% increase in fatal crashes during the workweek following the change, resulting in about 28 additional deaths annually in the U.S. An estimated 627 people have died in crashes attributable to the spring DST shift.

@theactuallew @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 It's in 1 Ki 11:1-13. It is clear that Solomon was condemned for marrying foreign wives who turned his heart from God, not for marrying too many wives.

@JeffRayChirps @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 Idc about rabbis I’m not Jewish. Where is scripture does God condemn Solomon?

Why would I care what a book that isn't Scripture teaches about an unbiblical doctrine?

@theactuallew @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 I didn't quote because I assumed you could find it yourself. But to be clear: I don't have to prove polygamy is allowed. Rather, opponents of polygamy have to prove it is forbidden. Romans 4:15 "For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression."

@JeffRayChirps @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 The reason you didn’t quote scripture is because what you’re referencing is in no way defending polygamy, but rather David’s avarice

@theactuallew @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 David was condemned by Nathan for adultery and murder, never polygamy. In fact, Nathan said God gave David his wives, and if they hadn't been enough, He would have given him more. Solomon had too many wives. Rabbis hold that 18 (the number David had) was the maximum allowed.

@JeffRayChirps @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 The Hebrew doesn’t use many, it’s more like multiple or increase. Which David does though he was already condemned. People sin. Furthermore, if you want to pretend it’s “not many” are you going to argue King Solomon don’t have “many” wives?

@theactuallew @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 You have it exactly backwards. Paul was trying to explain the mystery of Christ's relationship to the Church, and he used marriage, something believers would already be familiar with. People of that age (aside from the pagan Romans and Greeks) accepted polygamy as normal.

@JeffRayChirps @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 Earthly marriage is a reflection of Christ’s marriage to the Church. He doesn’t have more than one bride even if that bride is made up of component parts. The Church is one body, with parts. My wife having two hands doesn’t allow me to get another wife and just call it four hands

@theactuallew @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 You left off the beginning, which made explicit this command was for the King of Israel. Further, "not many" is not the same as "only one". David, with "only" 18 wives, "did what was right in the sight of the Lord" (1 Ki 15:5) despite being a polygamist.

@JaguarsRCool @JeffRayChirps @5Solas2 The purpose of scripture is not to repudiate every personal sin in detail. Scripture does condemn the practice even in the OT in general. “And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away, nor shall he acquire for himself excessive silver and gold.”

@theactuallew @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 3) As an aside, have you never observed how nuns each individually wear their wedding rings, believing that they all are married to one Christ, rather than a single ring worn by the head of the church?

@theactuallew @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 2) As for Christ and the Bride, that describes a spiritual analogy; a man cannot marry an institution. But it does illustrate marriage as both monogamy and polygamy, since Christ marries one Church, but the Church is made up of many believers.

@theactuallew @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 The entire point of Luther's 95 Theses was to challenge, not affirm, the practice of indulgences in the Catholic Church. It started the Reformation and led to modern Protestantism.

@JeffRayChirps @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 As Martin Luther proclaimed boldly in his 95 theses, thesis 71: “Let him who speaks against the truth concerning papal indulgences be anathema and accursed” Yes I believe in indulgences. And I believe the Catholic Church posses the fullness of truth.

@theactuallew @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 2) If you are trying to imply I must be Mormon, you are wrong. My church never supported polygamy. But that doesn't mean I can't read scripture for myself and disagree. Do you believe the Catholic Church is right in all things? Do you still support indulgences?

@JeffRayChirps @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 Jesus affirms marriage from Adam and Eve, which was not a model of polygamy but rather two parts that make one whole. Not a full rack of ribs making different wives. The church clear, scripture is clear. Make it clear, are you defending polygamy because your church affirms it?

@theactuallew @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 For comparison, consider interracial marriage. There was once a time when Christians had very strong feelings about this, each side quoting scripture in very loud voices. But we learned how to coexist, and focus our ire on the important issues.

@theactuallew @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 2). It would have been easier is Paul had explicitly said yes or no to polygamy, but he didn’t. This leaves it gray. What does scripture say about gray things? Convince yourself one way or the other and act accordingly, but don’t pass judgement on your neighbor.

@theactuallew @JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 1Cor 7:2 uses heautou (exclusive, non-shared own) in “his own wife” but ideos (non exclusive, shareable own, like “my own city”) in “her own husband”. That’s exactly how polygyny works. If you want a verse against polygamy, you’ll have to look elsewhere.

@JaguarsRCool @5Solas2 You are not sola scriptura and I have asked “has your CHURCH every taught it as acceptable?” You won’t answer that clearly which is a sign you are in a cult. As for a quote from scripture against polygamy, here’s one