M Makes Money

Some unreal egos in this space. “Take everything you do very seriously but don’t take yourself too seriously” - Dave Razowsky

Happy holidays everyone! Thought I'd share something useful for you guys today. Some of you may remember that I was saying the props have changed so much recently, that the initial edge we sought for trading with them over personal accounts might be close to being gone. Props exist in the first place because they know how the vast majority of traders are unprofitable, and how much brokers actually make off commissions from traders. The pie is extremely huge, so they came into this space, to offer us traders reasons to trade with them, instead of going with brokers. Many of you may think it is just about earning capital from props when we don't have a big one to grow properly with personal accounts, its actually not the case. In this post, Im going to be sharing about how I determine if there is enough edge trading on a prop vs a personal live account and how I calculate it. It is definitely not perfect at all, because there is no way to accurately compare 2 models that are extremely different, but I hope it'll still give enough insight and help you make better decisions when choosing which prop firm to go with or whether to go with them entirely or not First off, lets start with CFD props. This 1 is pretty straightforward, with CFDs, I always calculate the value of funding with what I am paying. For example, if firm A sells a 200k challenge with 10% drawdown for $1000, with a profit split of 80%, your actual funding is 10% of 200k , x 80% = 16k Basically your value for funding is 16k/1k = 16 Another example, firm B sells a 200k challenge with 8% drawdown for $900, with profit split of 80%, your actual funding is 8% of 200k , x 80% = 12.8k Value of funding is 12.8k/900 = 14.2 Disregarding rules and reliability of the firms, Firm A gives you more value for your money , which also means more edge. Lets go deeper and compare the edge of trading with Firm A VS a personal live account. Using the standard model of 10% target to pass phase 1, and 5% target to pass phase 2, with the same 10% drawdown, you need to 2x on phase 1, and then 1.5x on phase 2 to pass. To reach a payout of 10% profits, you need to 2x again on funded stage. Assuming you get there following the rules and there is no payout denial, you are paid 80% x 20k = 16k Using the above model, 2 x 1.5 x 2 = 6 If you are putting this 1k challenge fee into a live account, with the same results that would have gotten you a 16k payout with the firm, you would have only gotten back 6k, inclusive of your 1k capital. Furthermore, after withdrawing the profits from the prop account, you still have 80% x 20k of capital to try make more money with. On the live account, if you withdraw the money, your capital on the account is back to 0. The edge with choosing to trade with the firm instead of putting it on a live account is clear to see, even with rules in placed to lower your chances of making it to payouts. This is especially true in 2024 and the years before, where prop firms are generally reliable and do payout without issues Nowadays, this is getting more complicated because rules are getting stricter, and firms are less and less reliable, together with the fact that there will clearly be a cap to the upside as to how much you can make with a prop firm before they decide to cook up excuses and deny you the payout Now lets talk about the futures firms. I'll be using @TakeProfitLLC as the example, with the 150k accounts. The cost is $216, the resets are $100. I think you guys may be starting to realise that trading props is similar to flipping small live accounts. In order to reach a payout of 4.5k x 80% split with TPT, you basically need to flip 4 times. Flip 1 - use 4.5k to make 4.5k on day 1 Flip 2 - because of 50% consistency rule and EOD trailing, you need to use 4.5k to make another 4.5k on day 2 Flip 3 - make 4.5k to lock intraday trailing at balance first Flip 4 - make another 4.5k, to total of 9k profits , in order to be able to withdraw 4.5k x 80% split (because you need to leave 4.5k buffer) for $3600 If you flip 4 times on a personal account, that is 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 16x Your $216 would become $3456, not far away from what you would get with TPT. However, we need to factor in the fact that resets on TPT are $100 instead of $216. Which means, if you fail on either flip 1 or 2, you get a big discount on trying again. There is also another factor to consider, which is, in the event we go for flip 5, profits on TPT would be 18k, and you are eligible for (18k - 4.5k) = 13.5k x 80% = 10.8k On a personal account, the 5th flip would only bring you $6912 Basically the edge of trading with TPT gets more obvious as you scale up. Together with how reliable they have been in paying out, its definitely still a better choice to purchase an evaluation with them vs depositing into a live account, if things stay this way of course One factor to count against the case of TPT is that you have to deal with intraday trailing drawdown on flip 3 at the funded(PRO) stage Now the math presented so far clearly favors the prop firms, but we have not factored in the most important component of this equation yet which is RELIABILITY of the firms. There's no use of you getting to payouts if you aren't getting paid From Feb 2023 till Oct 2025, I've had 1.7m in payouts received, and just 55k denied/rugpulled/scammed/CFTC-ed - 28k with this firm called elevatethetalent that rugpulled and went under (i know it sounds stupid. They were just insanely cheap for value and it was 2023 where scams were far and few) - 22k with AstraFunding (this joke of a firm denied my payout, forcing me to continue trading with further conditions imposed which I was having none of it. Clowns sent me cease and desist letter for going public on X and then announced that they were closing down 2 days later) - 5k with @MyForexFunds because CFTC came in on the day of my payout with them 55k denied compared to 1.7m paid out. The edge of trading props vs personal still greatly outweighed the risk of not getting paid for me From November 2025 till now, my total payouts received has been just about 470k, and I've had 82k profits/payouts stolen/denied/scammed 30k payout- @tx3funding scamming sore loser @_Anthonysworld just straight up banned me when I was a few days from requesting my next 2 payouts for 30k. Told me to DM him to resolve issues but pussy blocked me instead 23k profits (would be eligible for 50% payout in a few days) - @TheTradingPit_ requested my first payouts of 4k x 2 with them, they paid and then banned without reasons, obviously not wanting to pay me further seeing I have another 23k profits sitting in the accounts 29k profits forfeited - this one's with @Tradeify , wouldn't call them a scam since it's written in the FAQs you'd be eligible for live after 5 payouts. Still it's extremely predatory , I wasn't even building the accounts but just going for the minimum balance to withdraw the capped payout of 5k across 3 accounts. They moved me live just 3 days short of me completing the minimum days of $200. Obviously done just to avoid paying me out as well. Also they have been playing affiliate favouritism, where their affiliate @AmasPFT based in Canada avoided being pushed to live on the excuse that their broker isn't ready and got to 27 payouts, while other canadians get robbed of their profits and banned temporarily until the broker is ready. Probed @GandalfTrader about this but still no answer given for this shitshow hahah To sum this up, it's clear that firms are becoming increasingly unreliable enough to make the argument where you could be better off trading a live account against some prop firms. I really recommend prop traders to start considering a personal account, of course unless, you deem there is still enough edge for you with props. Do let me know in the comments if you have anything to add in calculating value of trading with prop firms 😁

@farkas_leslie May you be blessed with the strength to bear this loss.

OK on a serious we lost our Louie , ozzie sheppard blue heeler mix this past November. Putting in his headstone today. See you in the next life Louie.

@salmanmunir96 @jamal2199fx Don’t make me click this.

@MmakesM0ney @jamal2199fx Almost dodged a ban with this

In less than 1 month this firm has exceeded my expectations in regards to execution, payout speed, support and all around user experience. With 4k more to withdraw tomorrow, I should be nearing 20k from 1 firm which actually shows the potential of Futures firms compared to CFDs. The payouts are daily and with 5x accounts I'm easily getting 5k out on a good day with 5x50k accounts. This post really needs no affiliate link, if you want to try a great firm go with @FS_Futures. I'm also actively trying to enable some currently restricted regions with their platform due to live account geo-restrictions, hopefully they can allow sim environment to clients without a path to live as well. The people behind this firm are really smart and bright. If you're not yet able to sign up with them due to restrictions have no worry, hopefully this will be changed very soon. Have a go at fundedseat.com

@salmanmunir96 @jamal2199fx

ES short. 2R then BE on runner. Trickier read for me today on ES with the large ETH range

UAE stepping away from OPEC changes how traders should think about control, supply, and what comes next in the energy trade. Most people will read the headline, not the shift underneath it. I explained WHY this matter and HOW it will affect the markets - especially commodities! (Link in the first comment)

Your grind will offend the lazy and your joy will offend the miserable.

@MarioNawfal Why would we ask for permission to build a nuclear power plant, you fuckwit?

🇧🇩🇷🇺 Bangladesh just became a nuclear-powered nation. Russia built it, Rosatom flipped the switch. Another country that didn’t ask for permission to turn the lights on.

Been a while since I did any value posts, so here's one for my followers. There is alot of misconception about consistency rules, and we are going to talk about it today Before I start, I wanna be clear that this is not against any firms who has consistency rule in their plans, I understand that it is crucial to make the business model sustainable, and also acts as a good deterrence to hedgers/cheaters What I don't like being said about the consistency rule is the narrative that it is supposed to help make you a better trader. This is 100% bullshit. We can argue for the case if the consistency rule is built around losses, since that reinforces sound risk management, but not around profits which we all know to be based on To explain this, you need to understand that having an edge, doesn't mean to be consistently profitable every day, or even over a short period of time. Having an edge means that, over a large sample size of trades, over a long period of time, you are ultimately able to come out as a winner despite the ups and downs on your equity curve. Variance is inevitable. Market conditions are never the same. To be trying to make similar amount of profits across different days is just plain retarded. Millionaires and Billionaires all have their breakthrough moments, and it certainly isn't built on "consistency" George Soros broke the bank of England for 1 billion profits in a day. You don't see him making 1 billion everyday. The top Poker pros go through periods of insignificant profits/losses , before winning a poker tourney for 6 or 7 figures occasionally. They amassed millions with inconsistent results. Elon Musk amassed most of his wealth in the shortest period of time over the last few years. People who don't understand edge will call them lucky for hitting that 1 big day or a good run of winning streak. But true edge means this, STAYING IN THE GAME LONG ENOUGH till you have your edge show up for a few big wins and repeat over the next few years. And thats the difference against the lottery winners. Many of them win 1 time, spend everything and go bankrupt without winning another lottery, because there's no edge, just pure luck So if you decide to trade a personal account, where it is as real as trading is concerned, please don't force consistency rules upon yourself. There's a reason why they say : let your winners run and cut your losers short. The consistency rule is anything but that

Topics covered in this free video tutorial: Account and data setup, chartbooks, studies, drawing tools, settings, order entry, replays, and more. Very helpful for those newer to Sierra Chart.

@ImreSG ICT 🤭

If the market is no longer responding as forcibly to war news, then what IS driving speculative behaviour? That’s the question to be asking

@hekyoda That bark 🤤

@TheMensAdvocate Preach.

Anyone under forest park ltd / propaccount llc is essentially fpfx bucket shop. It should be in terms and conditions and at the bottom of the disclaimer. True bucket shops have to have it at the bottom of their website as they do not deal with payment processing, propaccount does

Sharing this for visibility But essentially anyone that has Disclaimer at the bottom of their site (which they are legally obliged to do) saying forest Park ltd / propaccount llc / iconic exchange ltd / simpleprop ltd / zen proptech / fxproptech / propriotech ltd. Also check terms and conditions and if it doesnt have company registration number that you can validate on Google, immediately run. Avoid any of these. There are some good white label prop businesses out there, just very few.

I understand that you’re retarded. Somewhere out there, a tree is working tirelessly to produce the oxygen you’re breathing. You should apologise to it.

@Market_Emotions @apparentlytrder @BrightFunded

@apparentlytrder getting a huge payout from @BrightFunded? This I gotta be a part of 😉 Huge 80 pip killer trade on USDJPY to get funded. Baby we are so back 💦

@MTradingX @TheQueenofKa What’s the second last word at the end? Is that the name of Elon’s next child?

@TheQueenofKa A druggie, that embarrassed himself online more times than I can imagine, is setting an extreme of what you should not do as a man, which is good cause it means that we are close to coming back to normality from the LGBTQIAPS5 era.

Me when my Som Tum only has 20 peppers