Intellectual_Apologetics

BEWARE OF PIPER! John Piper teaches that JUSTIFICATION is by faith alone (sola fide) apart from works, But that "FINAL SALVATION" requires the FRUIT OF OBEDIENCE as evidence of true faith. He distinguishes between being declared RIGHTEOUS (initial justification) and the final, FUTURE ACT OF SALVATION, which is attained through a life of SANCTIFICATION. Piper mix JUSTIFICATION in the book of Ephesians and SANCTIFICATION in the book of James and comes up with his own mixture of confused terminology that is dangerously deceptive because you as the listener are not a 100% sure what he was saying. It is the little poison in the orange juice. (Ephesians 2:8-10 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Piper say the following: 1."You don't get in heaven by faith alone:" Yes you do! Acts 16:31 "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 2. "You get Justified by faith alone. You get in a position where God is a 100% for you by faith alone. " This part sounds right to me. 3. "And in order to get into heaven that faith must bear fruit of love." What fruit of love did the man on the cross next to Jesus had before he died and Piper must define what he mean by " fruit of love"? Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" 4. "Pursue the holiness without which you will not see the Lord. Put to death the deeds of the body and you will live." James 2:14-26 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food," James talk about our faith in Christ should be visible to the world and we should take it serious when Christ say : 1 Peter 1:16 "Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy" But this doesn't say that our holy living ( sanctification ) bring us in heaven. What Piper say, is that our holy living is essential to salvation, not your believe in the actual words of Christ. FUTURE ACT OF SALVATION, which is attained through a life of SANCTIFICATION ( Piper teaches) is NOT BIBLICAL. We don't attain salvation by our " fruit of obedience" When we say 1 + 1 = 2. We must first understand it and secondly believe it is true. Saving faith involves understanding the Gospel and believing the propositions of the Gospel as true ( Justification) . After we are saved we want to be obedient to Christ and that is where Sanctification ( holy living) is important. Don't blindly follow church ministers. Test everything they say with scripture. 2 Corinthians 10:5 "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;"

It's old news, but what's your take on what Piper says here about justification?

@usuallypregnant No. If she is a Christian she belongs to Jesus Christ. Obedience to Christ is her first priority

Can we all agree?

@Truth_matters20 Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

We don't even know what Mary looked like, so it's incredibly suspicious that these so-called Marian apparitions always appear as the Roman Catholic rendition of her.

@HoldenCCole God word or the words of the pope? Let me think 🤔..... John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

The Pope is the leader of ALL Christians.

@oelma__ Ecclesiastes 12:13 "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

What..?

2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained : All the books of the Old and New Testament, which are these: Of the Old Testament: Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers Deuteronomy Joshua Judges Ruth I Samuel 2 Samuel I Kings 2 Kings IChronicles 2 Chronicles Ezra Nehemiah Esther Job Psalms Proverbs Ecclesiastes The Song of Songs Isaiah Jeremiah Lamentations Ezekiel Daniel Hosea Joel Amos Obadiah Jonah Micah Nahum Habakkuk Zephaniah Haggai Zechariah Malachi: Of the New Testament: The Gospels according to Matthew Mark Luke John The Acts of the Apostles Paul's Epistles to the Romans 1 Corinthians 2 Corinthians Galatians Ephesians Philippians Colossians 1 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians To 1 Timothy 2 Timothy To Titus To Philemon The Epistle to the Hebrews The Epistle of James The first and second Epistles of Peter The first second, and third Epistles of John The Epistle of Jude The Revelation of John. All which are given by inspiration of God to be the rule of faith and life. The books commonty called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon of the Scripture, and therefore are of no authority in the Church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved, or made use of than other human writings.

@sola_chad There is the proof we don't have free will.... Romans 9:16 "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

@TheSkepticWiz You mean that He is not allive today or do you mean He never existed historically?

Breaking the cycle isn’t rebellion, it’s choosing truth over tradition.

@JRichardsUK @JesusisChristX Still waiting for a Bible verse that specifically states Mary has no sin...

Why would you use a psalm written by David to prove Mary was sinful, he's clearly talking about himself. The whole psalm is him asking for mercy. Cherry picked Bible quotes don't work on someone who knows the text. An analogy doesnt need to be in the Bible to be accurate that's insane, my interpretation is backed by the Bible not in those exact words but the message is the same. In the old testament the ark of the covenant couldnt be touched by any man because man are sinful and it must remain pure. Jesus is the new covenant and as such the ark that brought him would also be pure. I agree all people are sinful Mary was the exception as she was the ark of the new covenant. 2 Samuel 6:6-7 (NIV): "When they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. The LORD’s anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down, and he died there beside the ark of God."

Do you believe Mary was conceived without sin, remained ever-virgin, and was assumed into heaven, body and soul? Yes or No

You can't open that door of your own free will... Romans 9:16 " So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.' 1 Corinthians 2:14 " But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Hebrews 11:6 " But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Ephesians 2:8-9 " For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." All these verses above state clearly how dead in trespasses and sins we are and cannot even move a muscle in the right direction without God regenerating your mind and change your will in the right direction. Saved by Grace mean only the works of God not your works. Works ( opening the door) is your doing. When Jesus says opening the door it doesn't mean you can open the door. You can't get an " aught" from an "is".

If Jesus Christ stood at your door tonight, would you open the door… or hide your lifestyle? Be honest.

@Polymermann @JesusisChristX John 8:31-32 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YE CONTINUE IN MY WORD, then are ye my disciples indeed; AND YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, and the truth shall make you free." Show me out of the Bible that what you say is truth?

@JesusisChristX Yes, it's true.

@QuietMan1953 @JesusisChristX Give me a Bible verse to proof your point please?

@MrB_Apologist @JesusisChristX She was saved by Christ before her conception, because Christ is not bound by time or space, so yes he is her savior, but he saved her before she could ever fall into sin.

@fashionista533 @JesusisChristX Give me a Bible verse to proof me wrong.

@MrB_Apologist @JesusisChristX Not in the sense that you think. She was preserved by God at the moment of her conception to be sinless. And for THAT she rejoiced. I don’t know why you Prots have such a problem with this. It’s common sense that God would preserve the Ark of the Covenant to bring forth His Son

@GunzaGoGo45 @JesusisChristX Agree. They are Empiricist: Empiricism is the philosophical theory that all knowledge is derived from sensory experience, observation, and experimentation.

@JesusisChristX Non biblical Her being without sin would make scripture a lie I'll have fallen short of the glory of god I get it that roman catholicism is very emotionally pleasing to human nature as well as to the eye Wide is the path

Yes. Why? Because God demands obedience to Him alone. Ecclesiastes 12:13 "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." NOT THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE CHURCH !!! Tradition or God Word? Mark 7:13 "Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye." John 8:31-32 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." You listen to God Word you are a disciple of Christ. As simple as that.

@MrB_Apologist @JesusisChristX Do you expect Catholics to accept scripture that goes against their doctrine and traditions?

I get what you are saying but it is just an explanation that has no Biblical support. Your "Mary - Pit" story is not Biblical. If you talked about Daniel in a pit full of lions you would draw my attention because that story is in the Bible. Analogies almost always doesn't support scripture. We just have to say it as it is backed up by solid scriptural verses. The Bible say  we are "DEAD in sins" (ALL Humans, including Mary ) There are no analogy or further information needed. It is as clear as daylight. Anybody thinking otherwise need to quote a Bible verse to proof their argumant. Psalm 51:5 "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." Ephesians 2:6 "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

Very simple explanation sin is like a pit and we are all in the Pit. God pulls us out of the pit and saves us. Mary was about to walk into the pit but was pulled away before she fell in. God still saved her from the pit in a different way. Without God she wouldnt have been sinless, so she was still saved by God's grace. I hope this makes sense and that you are asking in good faith rather than as a gotcha.

@Jim106b @JesusisChristX If Jesus Christ was not saving Mary from sin, then from what did He save her from in order for her to call Him her saviour? Can you please give me any Bible verse saying that Mary calling Jesus her saviour doesn't actually mean saving her from sin but from something else?

@MrB_Apologist @JesusisChristX Not all salvation is salvation from sin.

That is true: She gave birth to Jesus because the Bible tells me so. Now, when the Bible say Jesus is God it doesn't mean that we can draw a valid inference that one sinless human give birth to a God. That would make an invalid argument because it has one false premise. For an argument to be valid both premises musr be true. The false premises is this: Mary is a normal sinful human being chosen by God the Father to give birth to Jesus Christ and she is in need of a saviour like all human beings are. How do I know that? Because the Bible say that every human being is born in sin.... Psalm 51:5 "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." Romans 3:23 " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" There is not one single Bible verse in the 66 Books of the Bible that say Mary was without sin. NOT ONE. 1. Popular opinion 2. Church tradition 3 Marian apparition.  Has no authority above the Word of God. It should ALWAYS be our only source of truth with regard to the Christian religion.

@MrB_Apologist @JesusisChristX Mary gave birth to Jesus

Exactly. The Bible tells us, that EVERY HUMAN BEING is in need of a Saviour that saves us from our sin.....Mary is not excluded Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Isaiah 64:6 " But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." 1 John 1:8-9 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

@MrB_Apologist @JesusisChristX Romans 3:23-24 [23]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [24]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: