🗡️Æ𝔩𝔣𝔯𝔞𝔢𝔡🛡️

It isn't a matter for formulation but concept. Just because a view has penalty as a feature does not make it PSA. PSA turns on more than mere substitution and there is more than one concept of substitution to be had anyway. Medieval Satisfaction models from Anselm forward also think Christ takes on our punishment and acts vicariously and they aren't PSA either. Hence other models can and do use that language and mean something other by it than what PSA means by it.

Uhm no. What occured was Catholic influence promoting Satisfaction theories and Lutheran influence primarily in Russia, which was picked up by various figures. Psa is not an aspect of the atonement. It is a model with its own explanatory mechanisms which are distinctly Protestant.

Statement from @OrthodoxEnsign’s priest: "As far as the PENAL SUBSTITUTION ATONEMENT idea, we Orthodox never speak in the ways of the West which is Guilt requires Payment, rather we speak in healing terms medicine of immortality. So no, we don't have PSA, we see Christ Sacrifice on the Cross as the way to restore us from death to life. His death on the Cross (Public and Undeniable) led to his resurrection from the dead, that is a huge pivot away from the Sacrificial System of Atonement in First Century Judea."

@pudlasz @KingMic92357513 Changed his tune after 2007

@KingMic92357513 read what he thought about rocor. it's fun

Purchased the whole series of 12 books How to Inherit Eternal Life by Hieromartyr Fr. Daniel Syseov. I'm pretty excited as Ill be getting them soon.

@Nicholai_Korea @ourladyaveri @AnaniasFather @kseniaofptrs It’s just getting funny now to constantly see multiple pictures with a ton of text being spammed lol

@ourladyaveri @AnaniasFather @kseniaofptrs None of those are PSA or inherited guilt as understood in west you flaming retard.

Just a clarification, if I lived in the Arian crisis am I bound to believe a damnable heresy because my priest+bishop does? Because that would create a lot of issues…

PSA is AHISTORICAL It's a modernist revision. Just because Saints, and Church fathers use similar term, like "Atonement, Or Substitution" Doesn't mean they are referring to the modern concept of PSA.

If you haven't already seen it, check out Fr. Stephen De Young, Alex Sorin, Ben (Cleave to Antiquity), Warren McGrew, and myself refute the Demon-Goblin PSA-Tards in Cleave's recent stream: youtube.com/live/J0RKTvGia…

youtu.be/Wj0hUGeAg_A?si… Again, never seen a single PSA latinizer address any of these arguments. They will cry about a 20 minute video to deflect and say they addressed everything in the legendary discord server though. (Trust me bro, here’s 10 pictures with 2000 words) They think redefining terms fixes the problem of adopting western frameworks/categories and importing them into Orthodoxy.

@KingMic92357513 Sent you a dm

@Orthodox_Alfred I actually haven't heard them say this, but their actions for my view would prove that. They do go about reading the Saints and their own interpretations the same way that the Protestants do the scriptures. So it makes sense.

youtube.com/live/XNvaM9m3T… Non of the PSA proponents have even bothered watching this, or the PSA stream with Fr Stephen, and yet they will rant and rave and spam-post badly translated quote-mine images. That is really the best they can do. They are incapable of doing the work Craig or Father Stephen did in as much detail, because the facts of Orthodox history and theology are not on their side.

@KingMic92357513 They literally say they don’t have to listen to their priests or bishops and that all they need is their own interpretation of the saints and catechisms. Not Orthodox!

@Orthodox_Alfred They just hand wave it. There is ONE post/blog that speaks to this. But it's the typical quote mines and misinterpretations.

That’s misleading. The Church doesn’t isolate and condemn “PSA” by name, and it doesn’t have to, because our theology doesn’t align with the Reformed penal framework. The Synod of Jerusalem already rejects key parts of that system. Your argument is essentially that if a council doesn’t explicitly condemn something, it’s acceptable…which isn’t how the Church works. The Reformed view of the Cross is inseparable from their theology. Do you really think Calvinist presuppositions have no effect on how they understand the atonement?

@gas_christcucks @DragonPyroHuntr White people have been Christians for 2,000 years you dull, Christ-hating weakling.

@Orthodox_Alfred @CleaveToChrist We’ve critiqued every little wrong thing about other confessions, even the intricacies of having the wrong distinction between essence and energy, changing the paschalion, and unleavened bread but you say we just ignored the differences on core doctrines like OS and PSA lol

A panel spent 4 hours claiming to deliver the "ultimate refutation" of Penal Substitutionary Atonement (PSA). They cited 3 scriptural passages. Three. It's like they hate Scripture. Here is what they avoided. 🧵 x.com/C2Antiquity/st…

@CharlesTheLessr @CleaveToChrist Amen brother ⚔️

@Orthodox_Alfred @CleaveToChrist On the nature and righteousness of beards: Reformed Prots 🤝 EOs The one thing we can agree on?

@CharlesTheLessr @CleaveToChrist You still rocking the sick beard?

@Orthodox_Alfred @CleaveToChrist Give him a break. It’s hard to respond to 4 hours of fanboying.

@HosannaHosannaa @CleaveToChrist That’s a fallacy. And I never said Fr Daniel Sysoev is wrong. You think he taught “PSA” because of his language? That is what’s wrong. He didn’t use the classical Reformed framework. If you think the Reformed view of the cross is correct than that’s another huge problem.

@Orthodox_Alfred @CleaveToChrist What makes new martyr Fr Daniel Sysoev wrong and what makes Fr SDY, a non orthodox open theist, and a catechumen right instead? You do know Fr Daniel was one of the greatest missionaries and catechists of our century? His catechetical works are used across the globe

@HosannaHosannaa @CleaveToChrist So you don’t listen to anyone but your own interpretation of Sysoev? How is this Orthodox?

@Orthodox_Alfred @CleaveToChrist Some are modernists, some are ignorant of the topic and what the saints say, some are attacking a made up strawman of what PSA is, some are all of the above. Their opinions are not synodal statement or authoritative on dogma of the church. If anything Fr Daniel would be

Patriarch Ilia II of Georgia // Memory Eternal

Ok, so you don’t know what was actually said, but you’re calling them modernists? Seems to me instead you get your theology from online pictures with quotes than the Saints and the Church. Multiple priests say they don’t teach PSA and that their bishops don’t teach PSA. Are they all modernists?

@Orthodox_Alfred @CleaveToChrist No I get my theology from actual authorities on the faith like saints, catechisms, synods. I don’t watch youtube videos of a non orthodox open theist and a catechumen exchanging their opinions to learn theology. And especially not interested in hearing their mockery of the cross