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Thread - What do we know about the mysterious and poorly investigated Copper and Bronze Age of North-West Africa ? (3000 BC – 9th cent. BC)
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TheMauretanian
3.2K posts
TheMauretanian
@TMauretanian
Enthusiastic about ancient history, particularly that of North Africa. Here, I uncover lesser-known facts and debunk misconceptions.
Metagonia Katılım Mayıs 2022
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@TMauretanian @Punicist
Excerpt from The Muslim Conquest and Settlement of North Africa and Spain (#content=query:Af%C4%81r,pageNum:37,indexOnPage:0,bestMatch:false" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">scribd.com/document/84055…)
Could the "berbers" of tunisia speak punic and identified as kanaanite but were labelled are berbers by the arabs ?
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@DiadeMartin It would have fallen far earlier were it not for these 2 dynasties. The "Andalusian leadership" of that era was defined by fragmentation, infighting, and betrayal. Almoravids were reportedly disgusted when they saw how unwilling they were to fight and how weak they had become.
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"Morocco" destroyed Al-Andalus
The Andalusians clashed with Almoravids and Almohads because of their fundamentalism. Al-Andalus could have lasted longer had they accepted Andalusian leadership.
The Almohads were defeated in 1212. The Nasrid Kingdom of Granada fought until 1492.
🇲🇦🏁 ۞@MoorishAtlas
The world if Morocco won and kept andalusia
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Morocco and the Maghreb are indisputably Arab:
-No one has ever ruled Morocco without an Arab nasab.
-The country’s literary tradition is fully Arabic.
-The aristocracy is of Arab culture; as people climbed the social ladder, they adopted Arabic and constructed Arab genealogy.
-The institutions of the Moroccan states and much of its civilisation were all inherited from Umayyad al-Andalus.
-Before integrating the Arabo-Islamic framework, Berbers were under the Romans or other Semetic historic powers such as the Phoenicians (who are at the origin of many, if not most, urban settlements in the Maghreb) and the Carthaginians, as well as other external powers like the ancient Egyptians (also from the Near East), the Greeks, and even the Vandals at certain points in time.
-The Moroccan dynasty is Arab.
-The majority of the country is Arabic-speaking and Arab-identifying.
-A large part of the Maghreb is descended from Arab Bedouin tribes who migrated; pre-Islamic Berbers vastly shared a similar nomadic lifestyle too.
-Many of the big Berber groups have historically claimed Arab ascendance, such as associations between the Sanhaja and Himyar, or the Zenata and Qays.
Big Herve 🇭🇰🇷🇼@alherveibnanfa
Les macaques qui nient l’arabité du Maroc. C’est devenu à la mode d’être berberiste.
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@NotaT240400 @PLKOTOR In fact, I had already acknowledged the Punicization of the city: x.com/TMauretanian/s…
TheMauretanian@TMauretanian
The city’s opening to the Mediterranean world quickly made it a cosmopolitan center, welcoming Punic refugees (priests, artisans, soldiers), Greeks (tutors, artists, soldiers), as well as Romano-Italians, who gradually took control of economic activities and served as intermediaries between the Numidian authorities and the East, and even the Roman Republic. The Numidian rulers’ policy of Punicization resulted in a profound Punic influence on their capital, clearly visible in the onomastics of the votive steles at the sanctuary of Baal Hammon. In fact, the city became a true hub of Greco-Punic culture (pics: © 2010 Musée du Louvre, Dist. GrandPalaisRmn / Thierry Ollivier)
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@TMauretanian @PLKOTOR “With this sanctuary, Cirta must be considered the second Punic religious centre of NorthAfrica after Carthage, and after the fall of the latter, as a conservatory of Punic cultural rites and iconography within what had been the ancient zone of Punic influence in the western Med’
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الآثار الكنعانية الموجودة في مدينة قسنطينة(قيرتا) الجزائرية في وقت سيطرة الكنعانيين على شمال إفريقيا وايبيريا
العربية
@NotaT240400 @PLKOTOR I’m already familiar with this and have read the article. As it clearly shows, it supports my point (influence) so where is the "Canaanite" political control of the city ?
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TheMauretanian retweetledi
*cough cough* slowly but surely (not fully public yet but if you'd like to help, look below).
AquilaDraws (Commissions Open 3/10 Taken) 🇲🇽@VeliteAquila
A image database of historical artifacts that uses the booru imageboard system would actually surpass almost all available online museum collections and university databases and I'm genuinely not kidding🧵
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@aotach0 This post isn’t objective. It downplays or erases the Berbers in favor of external groups, while overstating foreign influence to legitimize a so-called "Arabness" even where those references are irrelevant.
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Denarius of Marcus Aurelius Severus Alexander, found north of Nouakchott
Maqzara@Maqitzara
There is a Roman fibulae and some coins found at Akjoujt somewhere in the 1st millenium BCE,they were most likely brought through chariot trading and roman officials or merchants were most likely present. That's, I think, the only proven roman presence that far south.
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@Chud12346 Yes, but how do you think we can distinguish old Berber families from Arab ones? They may have been fully assimilated, but they were still well aware of their origins.
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@TMauretanian Living example of this exist in east Tunisia and the levant and Egypt where one family can be mostly of Berber origin and another one of Turkish or Albanian are same ethnically because of Large amounts on intermixing and cultural assimilation
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Here ethnic composition of the Andalusian Taifas (11th century). Translated from Clément 1993. "Young Berbers" = Berber groups who settled in Iberia in the 10th century. Local Iberians (Muwalladun) are included under the "Arab" label.
x.com/NotaT240400/st…
Nota T@NotaT240400
Selon Al-Idrissi la population de Silves Gharb Andalus « se compose d’Arabes du Yémen et d’autres, qui parlent un dialecte arabe très pur ; ils savent aussi improviser des vers, et ils sont tous éloquents et spirituels […] trad. Dozy et M.J. de Goeje, Leyde, 1866, p. 179-180.
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@Dani6CBP__ I clearly wrote: "Local Iberians (Muwalladun) are included under the "Arab" label."
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Si por “población árabe” entendemos personas cuya lengua habitual es el árabe, puedo llegar a comprar esta tabla.
Si por “población árabe” refiere a descendientes de aquellos que migraron desde el Oriente Próximo durante o después de la conquista, esta tabla es un despropósito.
TheMauretanian@TMauretanian
Here ethnic composition of the Andalusian Taifas (11th century). Translated from Clément 1993. "Young Berbers" = Berber groups who settled in Iberia in the 10th century. Local Iberians (Muwalladun) are included under the "Arab" label. x.com/NotaT240400/st…
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@Chud12346 No one said or implied that "muwallad" was specific to Al-Andalus, and why would they have been part of the same ethnicity if they kept highlighting such differences in the literature of the time?
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@TMauretanian Old Berbers andalusi Arabs and muwalads were basically the same ethnicity in 1050 ad the difference probably matarred in 800s ad
+ Muwallad isn't an Iberian specific thing like many chuds claim but the term included different arab client groups in mena too
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@Chud12346 This isn't really about genetics and the author acknowledges that Old Berbers were more arabized.
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@TMauretanian I wouldn't count old Berber pop of Iberian Cities and new berbers and Ceuta people as in the same category by 1000s ad as those were equally as district from each other as Kabyles are from tauregs or something both culturally and genetically
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Reconstruction by Ricardo Mar of 3 temples in the monumental sector of ancient Lixus (Morocco) - 2nd century BC. They were integrated into a vast sacred garden, arranged across 3 terraces and supplied by a network of canals. The complex was further enhanced by a cryptoporticus.
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