Tanna debè Ribbi Yishma'el

@arinohem These guys should *NOT* read Henshke

Guy who goes OTD because of Techeiles research

@mycr_karenina @FieldSpeakerZDQ No, one is *obviously* ridiculous and not even worthy of comment and the other has plausibility for someone only tangentially aware of the details of the rabbinic discourse. You can figure out which is which.

@TannadebeRY @FieldSpeakerZDQ That’s fine. But posting “yismach tzadik” along with photos of BG and co popping champagne for passing a death penalty law applying to Palestinians only is not any less a manipulation of chazal than what seems to be bothering you here.

Uhuh. And what about: משלי כד:יז–יח— בִּנְפֹל אוֹיִבְךָ אַל־תִּשְׂמָח וּבִכָּשְׁלוֹ אַל־יָגֵל לִבֶּךָ׃ פֶּן־יִרְאֶה יְהוָה וְרַע בְּעֵינָיו וְהֵשִׁיב מֵעָלָיו אַפּוֹ׃

@mycr_karenina @FieldSpeakerZDQ But on the *general* question of whether Hazal or the Prophets or the Torah would approve of the death of perpetrators of Palestinian terrorism, I think the answer is obvious even if idiotic degenerates like BG are naturally inclined to veer far beyond the obvious.

@mycr_karenina @FieldSpeakerZDQ Nope. Not all halachic debates are tendentious, and I strenuously object to manipulating our sources, and tbc neither should Hazal be used to defend this *particular* law given how awful the details seem to be.

@mycr_karenina @FieldSpeakerZDQ I think anyone who is well acquainted with the sugya would recognize that this is a very tendentious borderline manipulative interpretation far from the meaning of the text. It's fine to oppose the death penalty, but pls don't make believe the source for that is in Hazal.

@TannadebeRY @FieldSpeakerZDQ Hazal were also on the issue BG is celebrating

@FieldSpeakerZDQ @mycr_karenina Hazal were on this one already, contrasting the two views in Mishleh itself x.com/TannadebeRY/st…

@mycr_karenina It is worth noting that one is your personal adversary and the other is the general evildoer, most Midrashim tend to follow in this vein

@DBashIdeas @shevereshtus My model of sipur yetziat mitzrayim is that obviously that's what ppl would discuss on the night of the Korban Pesach but that it was nidrash at some point as clearly in the text of the Torah (Rabbenu Asher would disagree, saying it's derabanan).

@TannadebeRY @shevereshtus Undoubtedly. Most in fact.

@DBashIdeas @shevereshtus Ya, I don't think it's crazy to see the Mechiltas there as a "midrash mekayem," or a post-churban "midrash mechadesh." We acknowledge that Midrash can make a de'orayta right?

@TannadebeRY @shevereshtus And the post mentions the mitzvah of sippur yetzias mitzrayim—total aside but R Henshke has some wild takes here.

@DBashIdeas @shevereshtus Really can't speak at all to R Tzadok, but the way R Kook describes it straddles the line I think.

@TannadebeRY @shevereshtus I’m not sure Rav Tzadok or Rav Kook say this was conscious. Rav Tzadok’s theory is couched in the Ramban in Bava Basra 11b?

@DBashIdeas @shevereshtus what if small developments accumulate into dramatic ones (which does seem to have happened in many domains)? My disagreements with R Kook (and maybe R Tzadok too? I don't know enough) are more about the theological self-conception of Hazal as conscious (or not) revolutionaries.

I agree with your underlying points but I think some of the proofs you marshal can easily picked apart. To a degree, I think all polemics are flawed — we sometimes overcorrect as a response to people to want to undermine Jewish life, but I think there is ample room where an authentic mesorah that can countenance a certain degree (certainly not limitless) of dramatic development. I think Rav Tzadok and Rav Kook provide models that explain such developments. Would be curious to hear @TannadebeRY response to your post. We have argued about this in the past as well.

@FieldSpeakerZDQ check DMs

@TannadebeRY @arinohem I wish. I guess I can still work on Mevaqshe tefilla and Simḥat HaRegel but L

Anyone reading anything interesting related to the upcoming holiday? Feel free to share articles or what have you that you would suggest printing out before the 72 hour Yom Tov marathon?

@ShlomoArgamon I see what you did there

Wait a minute.... unleavened bread...made with olive oil... and salt... sounds familiar.... #DoingTheDaf

I see that Modi has more of a moral backbone than the opportunists at Satmar

@DavidRegev To be clear, I don't share this perception b/c I don't think the differences are *that* stark, but if you think they are then there should be some sort of narrative history here, no?

@DavidRegev (The Machon Shilo people I basically categorize as an artificial and ahistorical phenomenon) The reason for my second question is that I'd want to know when the authentic people died out and how it was that the reformers won.

Whether one eats romaine lettuce or horseradish on Passover is a litmus test for how intellectually honest your approach to halakhah is. ⁦At this point, it’s pretty impossible to argue that חזרת in the Mishnah is horseradish. Yet many rabbis still act like it is (even when they know otherwise). Why? ⁦For some people, halakhah = “whatever my parents or community do”. Thus, the study of Jewish legal texts becomes purely performative. דרוש וקבל שכר! It’s never meant for learning what to do, since that comes from mimicking people around you. At most, those texts are studied in order to figure out how to reinterpret them in a way that matches communal practice. This is essentially how Orthodox and Conservative Judaism work. It goes back to how the Tosaphists and Rashí approached halakhah. But it’s not the Judaism of Maimonides or the Rabbinic Judaism of the Sages. If only the Orthodox were as self-aware as the Conservatives to admit that this is what they’re doing. Better yet, they should just embrace intellectual honesty and return to Rabbinic Judaism.

@DavidRegev Would you say that your practice is so utterly different than the rest of Jews (the progeny of the reformers of old)? What happened to the Geonic approach and when would you say it disappeared? Who was its last major adherent?

@TannadebeRY The Geonim’s intellectual progeny is all but gone (the Baladim are basically the only remnants of that intellectual tradition). People like me are more of a revival.

@DavidRegev If the Tosafot were such a massive reform, you would expect their intellectual progeny and the Geonim's intellectual progeny to be much more different than they ended up being, no?

@TannadebeRY You mean the later Sepharaddim, who were heavily influenced by Christian mysticism and Franco-German rabbis? That’s very different from Maimonides and the Geonim (which in turn are different from the fledgling Palestinian community at the time).

@DavidRegev So how is it that even with a major reform, they ended up kind of being not so dissimilar to Sepharadim?

@TannadebeRY Yes. (To be clear, my comparison is with Conservative Judaism, not the Reform movement. My point was that the methodology of Rashí/Tosaphoth was a major reform that ceased to be Rabbinic Judaism.)