Vinnie ☦️

@IFFFMEISTER I wish apologists for and against the practice would better identify what they mean by “icon veneration” and what they mean when they say it was/wasn’t practiced early on, they tend to speak past each other because they have different ways of interpreting what they’re saying

@VinnieIsBored Praxis shifted yes. Veneration of various sorts existed. But in certain places (Syriac tradition, for example) icon veneration wasnt really a thing

The "church always venerated icons like today" is a nonsense argument that isnt necessary to defend the validity and apostolic continuity of such a practice. The development view is clearly the more cogent perspective

@IFFFMEISTER Images being used in worship space is an act of veneration, and it’s known that it was common for crosses and relics to be venerated, so it’s not a crazy jump for those acts of veneration to move to wooden panels once they became standard in piety 2/2

@IFFFMEISTER That’s basically where I land, I think there was the practice of images being venerated in some capacity, but since the Church was underground and facing persecution, the way veneration happened would gradually move toward the wooden icons we see now 1/2

@Acolyte83349490 @needGod_net Has anyone actually addressed it? I’ve seen you comment this 100 times and have yet to see their response. Better yet, has anyone at all actually addressed the Palegius quotes you’ve brought up in discussions/writings?

@needGod_net Btw, still waiting for you to address your use of Pseudo-Jerome aka Pelagius to support Sola Fide.

Orthodox people are trying to say it’s only a suggested donation. Really? “You will be required to pay”

@IFFFMEISTER I don’t wanna be the “he’s focusing on this because he doesn’t have good arguments” guy, but that’s really how he’s coming across. His constant schizo posting doesn’t help his case

Hey Ryan - its not a good idea and the things causing it to happen need to change - its also not a slam dunk against EO and just makes you look lame

@RevIsaacWirtz @ThomasG130 @Prestonshepadog What an absurd comment. At least you show yourself as one who is unable to admit fault and isn’t willing to rescind slander and lies

I am willing to say that there is certainly division within Orthodoxy about this where some are guilty and some aren't. But Orthodoxy continues to insist that there is theological unity so I am prevented from making that distinction and must agree that according to Orthodox's belief of total unity, what is accepted by one within the group is accepted by all. Unfortunately this means you are divided against your own denomination. I think you are right, but if all orthodoxy is united, you cannot disagree.

How much? I don't see a price on the website.

@jwgrable2 Dang 😪

@VinnieIsBored But lets not forget that your claims are in fact wrong

Say what you want about the “paying for baptism” thing going on in some orthodox parishes, but it’s interesting how people are acting like this is somehow a defeater for Orthodoxy. Truth is truth, even if priests are doing something wrong, a scandal doesn’t disprove our claims

@RevIsaacWirtz @ThomasG130 @Prestonshepadog I’m willing to say that it is wrong and should be stopped. Are you willing to admit that you were slandering the Orthodox Church by presenting the issue as if all Orthodox parishes are doing this practice?

@VinnieIsBored @ThomasG130 @Prestonshepadog Cand it be condemned as wrong then? Rather than "Not the norm"? Are you willing to say that? I am willing to say that about any church within or outside of my denomination. Charging for the sacraments is always wrong.

@RevIsaacWirtz @ThomasG130 @Prestonshepadog Your previous statement implies that paying to be baptized is an ordinary thing within Orthodoxy. It’s not, there are a handful of parishes which are doing it, this is not the norm. Saying that we do this as the norm is slander

@ThomasG130 @Prestonshepadog Yes. Really. So it isn't slander. You know what else is a sin? Simony.

If an LCMS pastor was caught being a predator, that doesn’t disprove Lutheranism. If a PCA pastor is taking from church funds for his personal gain, that doesn’t disprove Presbyterianism. Just because a Christian leader does something bad, that doesn’t disprove Christianity

@jwgrable2 The St. Louis sem is super nice, but I liked the Ft Wayne location more. Although, the SL buildings are nicer in aesthetic

Never thought I'd ever say this, but my dad and I drove through St. Louis and I wish I grew up LCMS just so I could've gone to seminary there Mankato? New Ulm? Mequon/Milwaukee? These northern cities are depressing

@jwgrable2 @TheDonStein I only have 6

@VinnieIsBored @TheDonStein Make it Civ 5 and I'll literally play tonight

A fake quote, sure, but a true sentiment. Now for something truly spicy: the church would benefit from less nerds entering ministry and more quarterbacks and linebackers.

@jwgrable2 @TheDonStein Or maybe Civ 6

@TheDonStein I'm on the seminary track and am competing in a bodybuilding competition in August, I'm trying

@jwgrable2 @TheDonStein Bro when are we gonna play OW again?

@IconEnjoyer Bro was born before 9/11, couldn’t be me

😥

The wife and I finished watching the Netflix adaptation of Lord of the Flies, I highly recommend. Great casting, great acting, phenomenal music and cinematography. I never read the book, so idk if it’s good as an adaptation, but it was a good watch

@GainesKase22424 @GeorgeNicholasK @redeemed_zoomer He said that it became episcopal to prevent schism, and that bishops and presbyters are the same sacramental office except that bishops can ordain, so there’s clearly a distinction. Even if it was a development to the episcopal model, there was still a hierarchy between offices

@GeorgeNicholasK @redeemed_zoomer St Jerome said at the beginning it was presbyterie then it became epaicopal

There is nothing that the Church Fathers unanimously agreed on that the Protestant Confessions do not also teach

@jwgrable2 The revival periods definitely led to this too. I think I have a book that has a chapter on this period, I’ll try to find it and send pics of relevant chapters

@jwgrable2 It definitely has pietist roots, but I think it blew up with the hippie Jesus movement in the 70/80’s with the main conversion tactic was “we’re not a traditional church brooo we just love Jesus and rock and roll”

Anybody know the roots of the American Evangelical “How’s your relationship with God” question? Is it from the pietists or something?