@Alex_Ortodoxie @DrJordanBCooper @gavinortlund Ryan is like, completely anti sacramental and believes any level of sacramental grace is works righteousness. The reformed baptist tradition would condemn that lol
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ZZZZZZIFFSTER
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@IFFFMEISTER
✝️🇳🇬 Follow=/=endorsement
on my purpose Katılım Şubat 2018
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@Alex_Ortodoxie @DrJordanBCooper @gavinortlund Gavin is a reformed baptist who has a historic reformed baptist view of the sacraments. Tbh, that isnt the same level of gap in the slightest
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@DrJordanBCooper is on panels critiquing Roman Catholicism with @gavinortlund. Cooper is far closer to RCs than independent non-denoms like Gavin.
I don’t see the value in discussing these issues with someone who is so far from any sense of sacramental efficacy, historical continuity, or really anything of the Reformation.
Ecumenism for me, but not for thee!
Dr Jordan B. Cooper@DrJordanBCooper
Why is Fr. Schooping on a podcast with a guy who thinks Lutherans are heretics to critique EO? We're far closer to the EOC than someone like Ryan from NeedGodnet. It's one thing to speak to these issues with a Confessional Presbyterian or Anglican, but I don't see the value in discussing these issues with someone who is so far from any sense of sacramental efficacy, historical continuity, or really anything of the Reformation.
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The OOs are fantastic in certain areas and this is one of them. Not being caught in the binary of some of these debates legit produces fantastic takes
Saint Mark@alqdys13839
Penal Substitutionary Atonement (PSA): Is It Orthodox? What is the view of the Church of Alexandria according to Pope Athanasius the Apostolic? Why doesn’t the Alexandrian view fall into the extremes found in later Western legal theories or Eastern anti-substitutionary reactions? How did Pope Athanasius the Apostolic’s reconciliation truly solve these problems? H.G Bishop Raphael describes the Orthodox view of the death of Christ according to Pope Athanasius the Great: atonement, debt, and healing. Simple language so everyone can get it #CopticOrthodox
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@GeorgeNicholasK Sure. Im arguing the prevalence and importance of that was obviously not the way it is now at all. Some places yeah, some no, some indifferent. Etc.
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@IFFFMEISTER We argue images of holy things and people were always addressed with venerate behaviors on account of their connection to holy prototypes. This is not only defensible and cogent, but should be pretty obvious.
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The "church always venerated icons like today" is a nonsense argument that isnt necessary to defend the validity and apostolic continuity of such a practice. The development view is clearly the more cogent perspective
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@VinnieIsBored Praxis shifted yes. Veneration of various sorts existed. But in certain places (Syriac tradition, for example) icon veneration wasnt really a thing
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@IFFFMEISTER What do you mean by development? As in from the apostolic age Christina’s were fine with art but didn’t venerate wooden icons, but eventually shifted toward the practice, but not shifted as in they went from “icon bad” to “icon good,” but more of a praxis shift?
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@gavinortlund @RuslanKD As of right now, and im processing all thus cause i wanna figure out the next step here, i think the ordinary boundaries of the church in the pre nicene period would preclude a denominational church being legitimate. Id prefer that wasnt the case, but it is
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@gavinortlund @RuslanKD In terms of the succession, the wiggle room that exists isnt such a one that affirms the liceity of disconnected presbyterially governed churches. The early church seems to have an understanding of the visible church having knowable boundaries. While i do hold to a branch theory
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My whole thing to Ruslan (as someone merely studying these issues rn) is that this argument loses literally all of its teeth when you also reject the many many many areas where there was near or total agreement before Nicea (baptismal regeneration, episcoapte, etc)
Anthony@Catholicizm1
Protestants are down bad right now
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@Acts17David @OrthodoxEthos Just a heads up, they're going to say "he's a schismatic" and claim you're not debating those who are actually within the church
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Dear OrthoBros:
Since you insist I must turn my attention to debating "the true church" instead of wrecking Islam and evangelizing Muslims, and since I don't like to debate without first understanding a position, @OrthodoxEthos is joining me at 5pm ET to give everyone a case for Eastern Orthodoxy.
youtube.com/live/ppnTSXIFv…
YouTube
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ZZZZZZIFFSTER retweetledi
I’ll ruin your day if I tell you why
Adesewa@t_Duches
Ladies, have you noticed that your male friends often treat you better than your boyfriend does?
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@Himesama95 @RuslanKD Also what makes something dogma. Most protestants accept that apollinarianism is heresy, but the arguments that make it so are in no sense clearly in the pre nicene period or clear in scripture
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@RuslanKD @IFFFMEISTER So let's leave that out of the way & focus on, is veneration of saints dogma?
If by that you mean necessary, then yes. It is
If by that you mean it ranks high as Trinity or Baptismal regeneration, then no. It's not dogmatic
I will guess to you, this means, it is dogmatic
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@AnonymousWrest2 Most protestants repudiate the idea of prayer for the dead and that the dead go through some sort of trial or purification before entering heaven. They also generally repudiate any idea of eucharistic sacrifice
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@IFFFMEISTER I mean this could be convincing except for the fact that for every dogma you have with supposed total agreement you can find like 3 that are found nowhere in the first 3 centuries of the church. Furthermore most Protestant traditions agree with the areas of total agreement
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@RuslanKD @Dave52411051 So you believe that Jesus flesh and blood are present beneath the forms of bread and wine?
Also, do you believe baptism washes away sins, regenerates the soul, and no soul ordinarily is saved without it?
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@IFFFMEISTER @Dave52411051 You don’t even know my views to critique them 😂
I believe in real presence.
You believe in dogmas not in the primary sources.
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@RuslanKD Did Titus and Timothy have explicit aurhority from Paul to ordain and to judge presbyters?
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@IFFFMEISTER Uh huh. Which means there weren’t 3 offices in scripture. It developed out of necessity. Not dogma.
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@johncdirks @JeromeChukwuwem What do you think binding and loosing is?
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@JeromeChukwuwem But can you demonstrate why this is metaphysically necessary? God holds everyone accountable in the end. Why is a mechanism (like the one you describe) a MUST in the world God created?
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It’s not that it’s unclear, it’s that when you treat it badly it cannot punish you. When a Muslim misinterprets the Bible, the Bible doesn’t literally tell them “hey do not do that, we will now administer this punishment that everyone can agree is a punishment from us”.
Dr. David Wood@Acts17David
It's weird how they think the Bible is so hopelessly unclear and so thoroughly confusing that it can't be understood without a church telling you what it means. Why is the church so clear but the Bible so unclear?
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@_P3te_Belcher Its also literally not gone. Successions of bishops have remained at all the apostolic established churches lol
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@IFFFMEISTER As long as believers exist in the cities Paul planted churches in (which they most definitely do), the church isn't "gone." Not sure why people keep making that statement
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Love you drew but i seen this one before
Drew@drewdyck
Every church Paul planted is gone. Just a reminder that perpetuity is not the only measure of success.
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