Yoav

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Yoav

Yoav

@YoavCodes

Technical founder. Building Electrobun and Dash at https://t.co/Pp6sheAD3q | 20+ years in early startups going zero to one | prev: 2015-2022 @webflow

Katılım Mayıs 2025
77 Takip Edilen1.5K Takipçiler
Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
Imagine deploying 1,000,000 lines of code written in 6 days by AI that no human has ever read, let alone reviewed, to production where your customer’s data is. Imagine
Ryan Fleury@rfleury

Presented without comment

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Miguel Salinas
Miguel Salinas@Vercantez·
Coming off of this psychosis and it’s painful. Not shipping any more features until I can explain every part our codebase in detail. Especially important to do before we open source
Mitchell Hashimoto@mitchellh

I strongly believe there are entire companies right now under heavy AI psychosis and its impossible to have rational conversations about it with them. I can't name any specific people because they include personal friends I deeply respect, but I worry about how this plays out. I lived through the great MTBF vs MTTR (mean-time-between-failure vs. mean-time-to-recovery) reckoning of infrastructure during the transition to cloud and cloud automation. All those arguments are rearing their ugly heads again but now its... the whole software development industry (maybe the whole world, really). It's frightening, because the psychosis folks operate under an almost absolute "MTTR is all you need" mentality: "its fine to ship bugs because the agents will fix them so quickly and at a scale humans can't do!" We learned in infrastructure that MTTR is great but you can't yeet resilient systems entirely. The main issue is I don't even know how to bring this up to people I know personally, because bringing this topic up leads to immediately dismissals like "no no, it has full test coverage" or "bug reports are going down" or something, which just don't paint the whole picture. We already learned this lesson once in infrastructure: you can automate yourself into a very resilient catastrophe machine. Systems can appear healthy by local metrics while globally becoming incomprehensible. Bug reports can go down while latent risk explodes. Test coverage can rise while semantic understanding falls. Changes happens so fast that nobody notices the underlying architecture decaying. I worry.

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Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
@scubzero @ee0pdt It’s definitely not ok for all the people running bun in production that now have to adjust roadmaps to deal with this. But I agree they can do whatever they want and should, and the ecosystem will just replace it and move on.
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Dev No-ops
Dev No-ops@scubzero·
@ee0pdt @YoavCodes I think this is ok, but to me if someone introduced a brand new JavaScript runtime would have to be in production for the bleeding edge users for at least 6 months before I would consider it for prod workloads. This is essentially a brand new runtime to me.
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Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
If Claude was so good, they could have had a rust port as a separate repo, and had claude port every PR. Or just have it fix the segfaults it’s been introducing the last few months since acquisition. There is no reason to YOLO +1M rust, -700k zig as a minor version bump in 6 days and announce no human will ever look at the code That just kills bun for any serious person.
Yoav@YoavCodes

Imagine deploying 1,000,000 lines of code written in 6 days by AI that no human has ever read, let alone reviewed, to production where your customer’s data is. Imagine

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Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
@jayair This will be remembered the way we remember Theranos.
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Jay
Jay@jayair·
Bun is probably the most intense piece of software created in the last five years, where its moat was its difficulty Rewriting it is so crazy that you wouldn't even consider it I think this'll be remembered as one of the defining moments in the history of coding models
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Mitchell Hashimoto
Mitchell Hashimoto@mitchellh·
I strongly believe there are entire companies right now under heavy AI psychosis and its impossible to have rational conversations about it with them. I can't name any specific people because they include personal friends I deeply respect, but I worry about how this plays out. I lived through the great MTBF vs MTTR (mean-time-between-failure vs. mean-time-to-recovery) reckoning of infrastructure during the transition to cloud and cloud automation. All those arguments are rearing their ugly heads again but now its... the whole software development industry (maybe the whole world, really). It's frightening, because the psychosis folks operate under an almost absolute "MTTR is all you need" mentality: "its fine to ship bugs because the agents will fix them so quickly and at a scale humans can't do!" We learned in infrastructure that MTTR is great but you can't yeet resilient systems entirely. The main issue is I don't even know how to bring this up to people I know personally, because bringing this topic up leads to immediately dismissals like "no no, it has full test coverage" or "bug reports are going down" or something, which just don't paint the whole picture. We already learned this lesson once in infrastructure: you can automate yourself into a very resilient catastrophe machine. Systems can appear healthy by local metrics while globally becoming incomprehensible. Bug reports can go down while latent risk explodes. Test coverage can rise while semantic understanding falls. Changes happens so fast that nobody notices the underlying architecture decaying. I worry.
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Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
@Jack1000k Everyone who currently runs bun on their servers, and has customers.
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Dingbat472
Dingbat472@dingbat472·
@YoavCodes chances are 50% of these edits arent actual code edits, but claude re-writing the code 1 line down (with line-endings not set to be accounted for and ignored), causing a shift in all the code thus a billion diffs. Had this happen with one of my repos as i swapped from mac to win
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Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
@tomschrupp Except to an LLM comments are code, as they keep vibe coding this new monstrosity.
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Tom Schrupp
Tom Schrupp@tomschrupp·
@YoavCodes To be fair, if my recent experience with Claude is any indication, 90% of that "code" is just bloated comments
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Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
@dh44t zig bun was infrastructure. rust bun is a marketing proof of concept. they deleted zig bun. it's gone.
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Mario Arias
Mario Arias@dh44t·
@YoavCodes It is clear that there is zero engineering leadership in the Bun project, or at least an adult in charge.
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Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
In electrobun I will pin bun to the last zig version. Developers can bump to rust bun and beyond at their own risk. bundling bun will be optional. There will be a new zig core and adapters for different things you can use Bun, Zig, Rust, Go, anything for the main process. A new tiny JS runtime for those that want TS for their main process but don’t trust shipping rust bun to their end user’s machines for obvious reasons.
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Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
@alliemeka How do I update my SOC2 policy to reflect this amount of negligence and how will my customers react when they get an email with this new policy of shipping unreviewed ai slop to my server? It’s absurd.
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Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
Ai hallucinates random extra behaviours when copying one file to another in the same language. New behaviours, capabilities, and functionality, that is often misaligned with the prompt. My concern is putting those random hallucinations on my server with my customers’ data. How do i explain that decision to my customers?
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Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
@merlinaudio_ Ya in theory if it’s a perfect port that didn’t break js or FFI it should just continue to work even if their internals are rust.
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merlin
merlin@merlinaudio_·
i think porting zig bun is a dead and tbh, will land you in a world of hurt would love to see you make your own thing. would be amazing. re the config option - bunVersion - thats exactly what i was referring to. i should be able to just set it to bunVersion:"1.4" right? i have no plans to hop off bun as i need its bundler, jsx transform, and i still think its a delightful platform tbh (even if the rust port is questionable at best)
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Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
There is already a thing that lets you override the bun version I’ve tested electrobun with in your electrobun.config.ts But given every bun bump had breaking changes I imagine that wouldn’t scale well. So my options are port zig bun and just fix the segfaults or make something better for ts as a main process. Maybe something that isn’t 100MB on windows.
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merlin
merlin@merlinaudio_·
@YoavCodes we can continue bumping and pinning the version with bunVersion right? also yeah i saw you talking about the fact that its bunny inspired, but i think the connotation will make people immediately assume its bun related not necessarily, of course. maybe im just plain wrong
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Yoav
Yoav@YoavCodes·
@merlinaudio_ No need. The bun in Electrobun was never about BunJS it’s a 🐰 Had already been working on making BunJS optional. But now that I can never bump the version that work has become more urgent.
Yoav@YoavCodes

Alright got a lot working with zig as a main process. Here are the two most complex integration tests showing - Webview with OOPIF compositing - Webview with native WGPU layers rendered from zig - CEF No BunJS. It's on main, will pick this up again github.com/blackboardsh/e…

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merlin
merlin@merlinaudio_·
@YoavCodes interesting to see your sour on bun i still love it, but its becoming worrisome i agree. i'm concerned about the bloating (Bun.Image? Bun.wrapAnsi?) will you be renaming electrobun?
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Karsten Samaschke
Karsten Samaschke@samaschke·
@YoavCodes @gulshanur Disagree. Vibecoded is when you do a one-shot prompt and just hope for the best. There's a lot of ways one would never see code, yet could reach a good-enough quality using automated reviews and guardrails.
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