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Sundance
@YoungerSundance
Beggar with Oysters (Philosopher)
Katılım Şubat 2022
1.3K Takip Edilen140 Takipçiler
@loud_socialist In two-surname customs like the Spanish, each parent passes down their first surname (usually paternal). This ensures everyone always has only two
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OK, but unironically, I would like to hear how anybody has made hyphenation work for more than a generation
antifa🔻girlfriend@lllliatttt
I'd really like to hear the reasoning behind men who won't take their wife’s last name
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@scamandrius His pride only gets him in trouble when it is hubris against the gods (Apollo) or Achilles. Besides that, it is pretty remarkable he kept the factions together for 10 years, and commanding the most Kleos is a big part of that.
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@scamandrius Agamemnon’s pride, especially in defense of his Kleos, is extremely important to the war effort at large. He has to constantly remind everyone that they are there because he invoked the Oath of Tyndareus, and that he brought the most ships.
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I don't get why people act like Agamemnon is uniquely bad in the Trojan war especially if you like someone like hector because he's actually very similar to hector imo in relation to his pride. I like hector a lot but like they're similar both having a lot of pride
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@hwljnknss @scamandrius He had to fight, yes. But he didn’t have to fight in the way that he did. Hubris forced him to spark Achilles wrath and hubris made him fight Achilles outside the walls. In the end, he defends nothing, and Troy burns.
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@scamandrius Hector if forced to fight a war he didn’t choose because he has a duty to defend; Agamemnon started a war because he’s petty. They’re not the same at all.
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@DragonShadows4 @scamandrius This is true. At the same time, civilization cannot begin without them.
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@scamandrius Men like Menelaus and Agamemnon had to die. Even Odysseus in a sense. Heroes are a destructive force. As long as they remain civilization cannot take hold.
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@MT_6226 The West has at times, the present being one, returned to Achillean worship over Troy. This only occurs when the civilizational focus moves from the fortress to the frontier; defense to offense. When your society needs Hector you name your child Hector, when it needs Achilles..
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@MT_6226 Bicoulered-Python-Rock-Snake is correct that Rome and the spiritual inheritors of Rome, the West, identify more with Troy for most of their history. Ulysses and Aquiles are not uncommon names though. Nor is Jason, the most common Greek name in the west.
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I think for many millennia (the millennia that shape our naming practices), people sympathized with the Trojans, but now they sympathize more with the Greeks.
The kids play games now and in videogames where the Trojan War was mentioned (eg Age of Mythology, Empire Earth), you always had to play as the Greeks.
Cavid #FreeUlviyya@cavidaga
The fact that nobody names their kids Achilles, Menelaus, Agamemnon or Odysseus these days, but here are tons of Hectors around says a lot.
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@lcthlorien You have to realize how precarious his situation is. You don’t have to agree with his means or methods, but from his perspective, it is very important that everyone continues to listen to him and not think about much else.
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i started reading the iliad this morning and my god is agamemnon annoying
Jack@genesongs
I loved how Agamemnon is such a silent and imposing figure in The Odyssey (2026), but in the Iliad he literally does not shut up or stop whinging for the entire story
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@TheMindScourge Conservatives and Liberals alike both abandon their ideologies every half generation or so. It’s just a movie made by an old guy who hasn’t been swayed by a modern doctrine
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Nolan’s “The Odyssey” is ultimately a conservative film - but it’s a conservatism that the right (at least in the US) has largely abandoned. The right that no longer “hears the music” of tradition
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@DrDavidMiano You bring a very Táin Bó Cúailnge perspective to this Homeric discussion
CY
After a hundred years of Homeric scholarship, what has become abundantly clear is that Homer’s works display a predominantly early Iron Age world with only distant echoes of the Bronze Age.
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@Rux_Dacoromana It’s really close, if we are talking about right when he left Ithaca. The complexion and beard are right. His hair was curly and fair/red-brown. Most of what we read are about his broad chest and shoulders. I think if you put a beard and tan on Ben Askren it’s perfect.
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@_Plac3_hold3r @corsair21c Yes, definitely. By the time of Augustus, Hectors were much more valuable to the Romans than Achilles were. Same for the West (save Napoleon), until America's westward expansion, and then, only for a blip.
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@YoungerSundance @corsair21c Hector is the focal point for the Romans and so this passes to the West
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People prefer to erase parts of Homer’s tales that don’t fit their modern tastes. For instance, they erase Hector fleeing in total panic from Achilles in the Iliad, & only stopping to fight after Athena tricks Hector into thinking he has an unfair advantage in their duel
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@AugustusVi26115 @corsair21c Definitely not slandering Hector, but recognizing him for what he is and isn't. Achilles refusal to fight and the god's will prevent the Greek victory more than Hector's areté does. Remember, Zeus prevents Diomedes from confronting Hector, Apollo helps Hector kill Patroclus..et
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@YoungerSundance @corsair21c Hector slander was cringe Greek propaganda seething at the man preventing them from winning
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@corsair21c Hector is not a hero on the same level as Achilles or really any of the other Greeks. What I call the “Hectorization” of societies like ours is symptomatic of cultures who no longer value or need the Achillean hero of pure wrath, power, and the threshold.
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@corsair21c Every scene that shows Hector in a bad light is cut. The duel with Patroclus stands out. In Troy it is a one on one duel, he ends the battle when he learns it is not Achilles, and he leaves the armor and body for the Greeks to recover. Completely opposite to the Iliad.
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@ablumterra @maxwelltani Is that right? I have not seen it yet. Seems like a pretty major revision to make.
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@YoungerSundance @maxwelltani Yes but Nolan does not communicate this to the audience at all
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Sundance retweetledi
Not only is Dune set in a universe where the Iliad happened, but our world is also set in the universe where the Iliad happened.
pool party vico🌴🌊🪐@yudovico
unless dune is set in a universe where the iliad happened, this is like if someone 2000 years from now read the lord of the rings and wrote a story set 10000 years in the future where the protagonist is a distant relative of aragorn
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Helen is returned after the sack of Troy, and the Trojan horse in no way violates Xenia (what Nolan calls “Zeus’s Law”). The Greeks did commit spiritual crimes during the sack, namely temple desecration and extreme hubris, which they were punished for, but the Trojan horse was genius.
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@maxwelltani in the first instance he violated Zeus's law, and in the second instance justice was delivered to those violating Zeus's law
happy to help
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