Zen

248 posts

Zen

Zen

@_ZenzenE_

Katılım Temmuz 2021
734 Takip Edilen6 Takipçiler
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@alya_stfu @niikolaos It's still a bad point to make in a children's book though, since a child would be more likely to take it to also mean the converse. And "ugly -> bad / pretty -> good" would not be a good lesson to take and keep through your life.
English
0
0
1
46
alya ⁺‧₊˚ ཐི⋆♱⋆ཋྀ ˚₊‧⁺
alya ⁺‧₊˚ ཐི⋆♱⋆ཋྀ ˚₊‧⁺@alya_stfu·
@niikolaos i dont interpret it literally, more like once you know someone is a horrible person or a lovely person you see them differently—not that their appearance actually changes to match, but your perception of it does
English
10
18
1.8K
30.1K
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@el_zarts @zer0main43 There's no rule that I couldn't win the lottery, but that doesn't mean I will. It would be stretch to believe that 100% of people will pick red, which is why blue is such a prevalent choice.
English
0
0
0
11
Garrabon
Garrabon@el_zarts·
@zer0main43 If there was a rule that red couldn't be 100%, then yeah. On that instance red is the wrong choice. Going back to my previous point, is asking for a expensive gift u liked on a secret santa, knowing dam well everyone else is broke, and u gifting something from dollar tree.
English
1
0
0
35
Creative Name
Creative Name@zer0main43·
“Let me explain the blue vs red button debate” *misrepresents the hypothetical to make blue seem stupid and red smart
English
79
117
3.7K
34.2K
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@rando51423 @StefanMolyneux I understand that people read through the question differently, that's a huge part of the discussion behind the question. But all the same it is frustrating when people pin the children as something that's only brought up to prove a point or be defensive about - it's not.
English
0
0
1
8
ifudisagreeimbetter
ifudisagreeimbetter@rando51423·
@_ZenzenE_ @StefanMolyneux I’m only seeing people talk about saving babies because I said it yesterday and I’m getting algo’d with it. That’s a fine reason for picking blue. It’s also reasonable to intuitively set aside people in these scenarios who can’t listen to the question and make a decision.
English
1
0
0
14
Freedomain - with Stefan Molyneux, MA
Freedomain - with Stefan Molyneux, MA@StefanMolyneux·
I’m sorry you don’t understand the word “everyone.” Maybe grab a dictionary before debating in English
zamatustra@zamatustra

@StefanMolyneux implying babies, autistic people etc breaks the thought experiment. it wasnt about helping actual victims. it was about people that put themselves in danger. it was about individual vs collective responsibility. Let's consider only people that fully unserstand the implications.

English
86
11
193
12.8K
InterspeciesFace
InterspeciesFace@InterspeciesFa1·
@_ZenzenE_ @corsaren No, the presence of those who are at risk by accident, actual victims, is what changes the equation. The majority of humanity buys into the "suicide cult" explanation when there's no innocent life to save. They see you as pointlessly making an informed decision to kill yourself.
English
1
0
0
17
corsaren
corsaren@corsaren·
Kinda interesting how hard blue lost here. Because, ya know, an absolute fuckton of 18 year olds are still gonna vote blue. I guess we stop caring about kids at 18? (In fairness, the question should shift your expectation of the outcome toward red, so you *should* vote redder)
corsaren tweet media
corsaren@corsaren

BONUS ROUND: Every able-bodied, mentally cogent adult between the ages 18 and 80 must press a button. No children, no mentally handicapped. Reds live regardless; blues die unless >50% vote blue. No cheating this time. You don't know how people have voted so far.

English
49
0
51
9.7K
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@spiderking232 I think "suicide" and "murder" are both too harsh. "I might die" and "I might support a scenario where people will die" would be more accurate.
English
0
0
3
706
InterspeciesFace
InterspeciesFace@InterspeciesFa1·
@_ZenzenE_ @corsaren The only way to save everyone in this one is to make the thought that you'd vote blue here utterly unthinkable. You must tell people you'd never vote blue in this scenario.
English
1
0
0
15
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@InterspeciesFa1 @corsaren I think putting someone else's life at risk and putting your own at risk are very different things, and this can also influence someone's decision greatly in the case you stated.
English
1
0
0
21
InterspeciesFace
InterspeciesFace@InterspeciesFa1·
@_ZenzenE_ @corsaren No it doesn't. People have also done "guardians vote for dependents". This is just how the vote goes when the kids are safe. Turns out, many people weren't picking the "save everyone button". They were picking the "save the kids button".
English
1
0
0
23
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@rando51423 @StefanMolyneux Just because you didn't think about the children when you first made your choice doesn't mean others also didn't.
English
1
0
1
11
ifudisagreeimbetter
ifudisagreeimbetter@rando51423·
@StefanMolyneux No blue button pushers talked about babies in their arguments until they learned it would make people reconsider. Red buttoners thought of it as a steel man for the blues. Pretending “everyone means literally every human born and unborn” is a retcon.
English
2
0
3
67
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@cremieuxrecueil @xlr8harder I'm not sure how well it'd work at this point. People would be opting in, and while blues have to enter with some risk, reds can join with prior knowledge they have nothing to lose to prove a point.
English
0
0
0
15
Crémieux
Crémieux@cremieuxrecueil·
@xlr8harder That's why I'm seeking funding to make it all real. Are you in?
English
5
0
14
1.2K
xlr8harder
xlr8harder@xlr8harder·
the red/blue button thing blows up because it functions as a morality play where everyone already knows what side they're on. nothing is at stake in the scenario itself, which is precisely why it works as a full-throated proxy war. the stakes get imported from outside.
English
6
0
21
1.9K
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@suiseifan322 @Mitchendo64 I'll be honest, I think a lot of the people with hatred in their hearts that we need to account for are already here on Twitter.
English
0
0
0
15
lu ☄️
lu ☄️@suiseifan322·
@Mitchendo64 i think there's a lot of people with hatred in their hearts that aren't being accounted for, twitter isn't even 1/10 of the human population if i can get some data on a greater scale, then i'll gladly switch over until then i just got attached to my life and would like to keep it
English
1
0
1
38
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@Id10tzQuery I think some of them realize, they just refuse to acknowledge it. Which might be worst tbh.
English
0
0
1
35
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@RaidMasterVoid @davedevadave Just because the people on those boats weren't willing to blow up the other put and left themselves at the mercy of the other boat, does not mean they are suicidal. Picking blue isn't the same as getting on the boat, it's to not press the "blow up the other ship" button.
English
1
0
23
2.7K
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@CheckmateState7 The winning government can be some contrived puppet government that will enact changes as you like it for all I care, I didn't specify for a reason.
English
1
0
0
14
Checkmate To The State
Checkmate To The State@CheckmateState7·
@_ZenzenE_ Because the real choice is Red pill of freedom or blue pill of enslavement. You’re only presenting two different types of slavery which is no choice at all. Your hypothetical is hierarchically outranked in importance on the values of truth and freedom.
English
1
0
0
14
Checkmate To The State
Checkmate To The State@CheckmateState7·
Actual reality moral dilemma Red Button: keep paying taxes to pedo warmongers. Blue Button: stop paying taxes. If enough people do this, the pedo warmongers are stopped and lives are saved. If not enough people do this blue goes to prison and the wars and rapes continue.
English
19
3
10
13.4K
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@CheckmateState7 Just so you know, I agree with the underlying points you're trying to make, I just think it's a poorly constructed hypothetical.
English
1
0
0
7
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@CheckmateState7 And here lies a man that can not, will not, engage with the hypothetical. Why?
English
2
0
0
16
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@FantabulousMC @WatcherontheWeb All I'm saying is that your choice supported a red majority. You lie at the start of a collapsing chain of cause and effect, action and reaction that lead to the outcome of "Many people died".
English
1
0
0
24
MC88
MC88@FantabulousMC·
@_ZenzenE_ @WatcherontheWeb Nope. Them pressing blue had more of an effect on their death than me choosing red. They were able to choose red and live. Or I could have chosen blue and died for no purpose. Or am I responsible for every suicide I failed to prevent?
English
1
0
1
31
The Watcher On The Web
The Watcher On The Web@WatcherontheWeb·
"Picking red is killing people" is ALSO the same kind of cognitive dodge You picking red is ALSO not "killing" anybody. Same "Main Character Energy" problem But toss bullshit emotional manipulation to try and justify your bad decision on top of it. Nobody said ANYTHING about who or how the killing is done. You are projecting that for emotional effect, and it's at exactly that point I'm going to start clowning on you till I get sick of you
The Watcher On The Web@WatcherontheWeb

"I would know red is the right answer, but chose blue because I want to save somebody" is also the same kind of dodge, by the way YOU personally picking blue isn't saving shit Go for a walk and shake ALL of that "main character" energy out yo body

English
15
15
210
4K
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@johnpalmer Considering there are people picking both choices for rational reasons, perfectly rational people would die in a red majority, while some incredibly irrational people would survive. It's simply that 'some' people may die, and 'some other' people would be okay with that.
English
0
0
0
34
John Palmer
John Palmer@johnpalmer·
- If all humans are rational, everyone picks red. - But we know many humans are not rational - Therefore, red means 100% survival, but greater chance non-rational humans die - Blue increases chance all humans live, including non-rational ones So it just comes down to if you think it’s good for non-rational humans to exist.
Tim Urban@waitbutwhy

Everyone in the world has to take a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of people press the blue button, only people who pressed the red button survive. Which button would you press?

English
274
7
150
48.2K
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@FantabulousMC @WatcherontheWeb Perhaps "pressing red would make you culpable for the deaths" would be the phrasing you're looking for then?
English
1
0
0
25
Zen
Zen@_ZenzenE_·
@FantabulousMC @WatcherontheWeb Then, as action/inaction is binary in the current context, pressing the red button would be as much an action as pulling the lever would be.
English
2
0
0
30

Keşfet

@alya_stfu @niikolaos @el_zarts @zer0main43 @rando51423 @StefanMolyneux @InterspeciesFa1 @corsaren