vyshak

@DeepSWorld1604 @KhistiArundhati @Balancing_Actor Same underlying stuff doesn’t make all states equivalent. A Shakespeare sonnet and a grocery list are both “ink,” but not identical. Science describes the substrate. Organization gives rise to mind, behavior, and meaning.

@__Vyshak__ @KhistiArundhati @Balancing_Actor Seems like a nice coping mechanism to me. You and the "evil person enjoying their lives" are both just quantum fields.

Fav Story time.

India is not a free country.

@ChekuriAruna @AnuSatheesh5 Why read Vedas? I'm not saying don't. Asking you for reason. Vedas are examples of authority based systems where instead of scrutinizing each claim made, it is accepted blindly as not of human origin and therefore automatically validated as source of knowledge.

@__Vyshak__ @AnuSatheesh5 Neurologist by profession, hindu by culture. Authority based systems? Im no brahmin but we read veda too. I see videos of a white men performing yagnas on a daily basis under the umbrella of ISKCON. Guess the white people are brahmin too 🤷‍♂️

He is Dr. Ramanarayanan, a famous Neurologist in Phoenix USA, from Tenkasi TN. He received four gold medals for his proficiency. He is well versed in Vedaparayana, observing Nitya-Anushthanam etc., Look at the way he is bringing up his kids also in the same direction. One who leads by example

@AntidehaatSS @Balancing_Actor @KhistiArundhati You’re assuming a little observer inside the system. There isn’t one. The integrated brain activity is the experience itself. “Who experiences it?” is a bad question where the desired conclusion is smuggled.

@__Vyshak__ @Balancing_Actor @KhistiArundhati Data refeeding is experience then? What experiences the re-entrant data?

@abhispake All ancient traditions whether new or familial are man-made. Fun/pleasure is subjective. Some might find more meaningfulness in minimalism. To each their own.

Marriage for most is a one time important event in life. Never undergo marriages in artificially laid out procedures like Mantra mangalya and suck all pleasures out of your life. Marriages must be conducted according to familial traditions. Should not overspend though

@AntidehaatSS @Balancing_Actor @KhistiArundhati The leading scientific model is re-entrant (recursive) neural processing. This is likely how experience arises. Through real-time loops of the brain feeding data back into itself. It’s a biological system monitoring its own state.

@__Vyshak__ @Balancing_Actor @KhistiArundhati What is the mechanism for experience?

@amarbara96082 Does a 206 rank holder have more constitutional rights than a 2.06 lakh rank holder?

This janivara controversy always reminds me of that kid from bidar, suchivrat kulkarni. He was demanding free seat in govt college as a compensation but in the end when CET results were out,he got 2.06 lakh rank. Remember him?

@AntidehaatSS @Balancing_Actor @KhistiArundhati What happened is we found the mechanism. We traded "magic sparks" for biochemistry. Complexity alone isn't the point. Architecture is. A skyscraper and a jet are both complex, but only one flies. Biology evolved for survival. Qubits for math.

@__Vyshak__ @Balancing_Actor @KhistiArundhati "Life was once called an 'unknowable spark' until we discovered DNA." Oh? And then what happened? Also, didn't you yourself say complex systems alone are not the cause of life? Are you trying to say that the *right* complex system causes experience and life?

@ImperiumHindu Saying contents don't matter is like saying an engine’s spinning is independent of fuel and pistons. Witnessing persists because your hardware is powered on. When the hardware fails, the witnessing fails. Experience is a biological output. It is not a ghostly spectator.

@__Vyshak__ Consciousness witnessed the dream as well as real waking world Contents of consciousness don't matter when discussion is about nature of consciousness

First prove how consciousness emerges from material neurobiological processes in the brain- which seems to be your implicit assumption here

@ImperiumHindu You’ve already accepted the principle of Emergence by acknowledging how laws of physics can explain how dry molecules become wet water. You’re just drawing an arbitrary line where the complexity gets uncomfortable for you.

@ImperiumHindu If "laws of physics" explain how dry molecules become wet water, then "laws of biology" explain how unaware neurons become an aware brain. To deny this, you must prove a non-physical "extra" ingredient exists. Where is it? What does it weigh? How does it interact with matter?

@ImperiumHindu That is a total rewrite of history. For centuries, 'Life' was exactly where your view of consciousness is now. A 'mysterious thing' thought to be non-material. We only call it a material process now because we found the mechanism (DNA). You’re just clinging to last remaining gap.

@__Vyshak__ Even earlier, the cause of complex material process of life was thought of as some mysterious thing but it being at a material level wasn't ever in doubt

@ImperiumHindu Waking up proves my point. Your 'Witness' was 100% convinced the dream was real until your brain chemistry shifted. You didn’t transcend. Your biology just switched from offline simulation to online input. If your consciousness is fooled by a REM cycle, it isn't fundamental.

@__Vyshak__ But it's my own experience at the end of the dream and when I wake up that proves to me that whatever was dreamt up wasn't real

@AntidehaatSS @Balancing_Actor @KhistiArundhati Life was once called an 'unknowable spark' until we discovered DNA. Consciousness is likely a biological process and not a substance like 'running' or 'digesting.' You don't need a non-material soul to run. You just need the right architecture in motion.

@__Vyshak__ @Balancing_Actor @KhistiArundhati Wouldn't this mean that consciousness cannot be reduced to a material process? (although it is also that).

@AntidehaatSS @Balancing_Actor @KhistiArundhati That would be confusing computation with experience. Computers process symbols. Brains generate subjective states. There’s zero evidence qubit systems have any experience. Complexity alone doesn’t create consciousness.

@__Vyshak__ @Balancing_Actor @KhistiArundhati Are qubit computers alive?

@ImperiumHindu A dreamer is 'suffused' with the dream, but that doesn't mean the dream isn't generated by a brain in a dark room. Your experience is real, but your theory about its source is a guess.

My man you are literally assuming what you want to prove, again. It's your own unprovable assumption that consciousness emerges from matter not ours! we can experience what consciousness is from our day to day experience and it's valid proof of it since our discussion is literally consciousness itself Either you prove how material processes generate consciousness or stop objecting us who know what it is from our own experience.

@ImperiumHindu Actually, you can’t. A single H2O molecule isn’t "wet". Wetness is an emergent property that only exists when a massive number of molecules interact. You are proving my point. The "quality" isn't in the parts. Consciousness is just the most complex "wetness" we’ve ever found.

@__Vyshak__ No, lol you can clearly explain in principle how wetness can be derived from a single molecule of H20. (Objective property deducible from lower level material processes which is fine) That's not possible wrt consciousness

@ImperiumHindu Existing in a process isn't the same as understanding its source. A dreamer is 'suffused' with the dream, but it's still just neurons firing in a dark room. Your first-person certainty isn't an argument. It's just the 'User Interface' of your biology doing its job.

No that's not my point As far as what consciousness is, I know what it exactly is since my existence is suffused with it I don't need to know about complex biological processes which make sight possible to *experience* the blue colour which is the topic of our discussion You are again assuming the thing which you want to prove

@AntidehaatSS @Balancing_Actor @KhistiArundhati Are bricks a house? No. But arrange them correctly and you get a kitchen. A qubit isn't 'alive,' just like a neuron isn't 'consciousness.' It’s the architecture, not the ingredients. You’re looking at a single pixel and wondering why it’s not a movie.

@__Vyshak__ @Balancing_Actor @KhistiArundhati Are qubits alive bro?

@ImperiumHindu You’ve moved the goalposts. You admit 'Life' is just a complex material process because we’ve solved that puzzle. Now you’re claiming consciousness is 'different' simply because we’re still working on it. That’s not a category error. It’s just the 'God of the Gaps' shrinking.

@__Vyshak__ No life in principle is just a material process, a sophisticated one at that and which can be in principle explained by lower level material processes or realities Consciousness is a totally different category