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@ayodps

Katılım Eylül 2013
18 Takip Edilen65 Takipçiler
ayo
ayo@ayodps·
@Cornsauce_ @bardozVAL The data is independent. Changing dpi does not affect sensor resolution or framerate, which should be the only relevant factors here. Subdivision (within reason) or averaging should not effect preexisting noise.
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Alan Wells
Alan Wells@Cornsauce_·
@bardozVAL But we would expect anything slower to have exponentially less noise as the sensor images overlap more and more per frame, right? When aiming we do not move anywhere close to 60ft/sec, so I assume we don’t get very noisy signals regardless of DPI. Or am I wrong idk?
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bardOZ (Giovanni Laerte Frongia)
CAVEAT: I AM NOT RECOMMENDING LOW DPI. NOR AM I RECOMMENDING HIGH DPI. I AM TRYING TO ANALYZE A NUANCED POINT ON DPI. I THINK THE GENERAL CONSENSUS OF USING ~1600 DPI IS OK AS A BROAD, GENERAL RULE. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS BEFORE YOU READ. --- if anyone wants to read this extremely dense technical explanation of why I don't like simplifying the "what is the best DPI" argument to simple blanket statements, here it is. It might be the first time I've written it all down in a single spot instead of scattered comments in my discord. I'd also love, if anyone wants to have a technical discussion on the matter, to receive feedback if anyone feels my thinking on the matter is making wrong or inaccurate assumptions. Feel free to also reach out in private if you'd prefer not to have a public discourse. Ultimately, it's not that big of a deal, and realistically, I expect very little ACTUAL difference in human performance at any reasonable (so >=800 dpi at lower-mid sens at 1080p/1440p, and >=1600 dpi at mid-high sens at 1080p/1440p) value.
bardOZ (Giovanni Laerte Frongia)@bardozVAL

yes absolutely! basically, it's a very long and nuanced point but my shortest explanation is as follows (be ready, it'll still be VERY long, that's why I want to make a video with MANY visualizations and examples): DPI are a parameter of the SENSITIVITY of the optical flow algorithm that runs on the DSP. ANY sensor, in the WORLD, as it increases sensitivity, decreases its snr (signal to noise ratio). So, increasing DPI in a vacuum is equivalent to increasing ISO in a camera or gain in a microphone. So, when do you increase ISO in a camera? when the current value is insufficient to pick up sufficient signal (light) for your "need" (in that case, the correct exposure of the image). Gain in a mic? Same thing, you increase it (at the cost of a higher noise floor) until your signal (voice, instrument, whatever) is picked up and sufficiently loud. So, when should one increase DPI? DPI is NOT, no matter how many times this analogy is used, the "resolution" of the sensor. The sensor is a fixed size array (it can't magically increase its physical size) of pixels (usually not many, something like 23x23). DPI is a function of distance, not time, not resolution. It determines the minimum amount of distance, as reconstructed by an optical flow algorithm running on the DSP of the sensor, needs to have been observed before the sensor reports a count to whatever is currently reading the sensor (a microcontroller, typically). WHY am I saying all of this massive preamble? Because increasing dpi has GUARANTEED negative effects, which are immediately obvious if one analyzes the issue asymptotically: as the speed of motion approaches infinity, since the sensor takes "samples" of the mouse surface (called sensor framerate, which is completely unrelated to hz/dpi, and usually caps at about 20k fps) at a given frequency (in time, not in distance!), it is immediately obvious that lower dpi would allow the algorithm on the DSP to hit the "no signal left" threshold (assuming it has leverages heuristics that aggregate multiple frames, when available) at a higher speed than higher dpi. Basically, imagine I move so fast that two subsequent frames only overlap at the very edges, and barely. this sample is inherently very "noisy", as in, it's much more likely that random/high frequency features (idk, for example, patterns in the weave of the pad) will be similarly represented as the underlying signal. If I am at a higher DPI, it means that my algorithm is starved of the possibility to wait multiple frames now to "decide" how to reconstruct the motion. This is just a very long way of saying that, like in any other sensor, indeed, raising dpi raises the noise floor of the reconstructed signal. So, since it's a universal truth that, by some non-zero value, higher DPI decreases the signal to noise ratio, one has to figure out where the correct threshold is, at which the extra signal picked up (more granular motion reconstruction) makes up for the decrease in signal to noise ratio. Usually, I try to shorten this to: "you should use the lowest DPI that, at your cm/360, does not cause the minimum camera rotation (which is purely a function of the in-game sens, not the dpi itself) to be so large that you start incurring motion clarity or "pixel skipping" issues". As you can see, I never mentioned latency. Why? Because of what I said in the other post. If you keep cm/360 fixed, the likelihood of the "latency" savings from increasing the density of your imaginary lattice that is superimposed to your motion (my example from earlier about how as you double dpi, every other dot you end up at the same place AT THE SAME TIME), to be relevant, is just astronomically low. It's not even in the conversation. IN the specific case of the X2h, for some reason, it seems like at higher dpi there also exists a SPECIFIC problem that might be a firmware bug, that I am yet to fully analyze and dissect, so I don't want to give my current thesis on the matter publicly. So all of that said, 800dpi, as long as I am playing very low sens (like this), is absolutely adequate for my needs, AND I am then sure that the DSP on the sensor will always have plenty of data available to leverage whatever smart trick or heuristics the engineers that wrote it have implemented to increase the accuracy of the motion estimation. Basically, you can imagine cm/360 as how bright the environment is when taking a picture, or how loud your voice is when speaking into a mic. CM/360 is really what determines your DPI. It's just very hard to quantify EXACTLY where the threshold is, so I hate giving blanket statements of "higher dpi is better" or "lower dpi is better". It's a tool. I wouldn't use 12800 ISO on my a7r iv when in my brightly lit office. I wouldn't use 70db gain on my SM7B when speaking 2cm away from the mic. Therefore, I wouldn't use 1600/3200 dpi at 85cm, as I perceive no visible benefit, while definitely incurring a cost in signal to noise ratio when I flick faster. Also, as dpi increases at a fixed cm/360, your battery life gets worse and your in-game fps (not stutters) get worse, as the game now has to compute more rotations of the camera per second, and your mouse is needlessly sending more information over RF per second, using more battery. Basically, if you "saturate your polling rate" by using higher DPI, you are just making sure that you are at the least efficient use of your battery, and the most taxing computational state for your game (and also the highest level of interrupt storming for your OS). And since the x2h already has a very short battery life, 800 dpi is the way for me. P.S. no one, apart from Pixart and Logitech employees, can really know what the real answer to my thoughts about whether or not the DSP actually does actually use DPI internally as part of its algorithm, or it just estimates motion according to other metrics of confidence internally and then reports aggregates of its internal state via the motion registers according to DPI. I am just saying that there is no world, though, in which you'd have a BETTER signal to noise ratio with higher DPI. That part is just impossible, unless a bug/unintended behavior is occurring. You can have less signal, yes, so much so that it's insufficient to properly reconstruct the motion in a sufficiently accurate way, but you will also have very very very little noise, and each of the very sparse samples will be very very very very accurate.

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ayo
ayo@ayodps·
@xTheWhale_ @DrexCS3 @Pl4tz Diggi ich dachte ich wäre irrelevant aber sehe nichtmal den Kommentar weil er im Spam Filter hängen bleibt. Wortwörtlich hängen geblieben kek
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ayo@ayodps·
@youareanoname @bardozVAL Have not noticed a singular malfunction in 12 months on gx-speed, although using different models.
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̈@youareanoname·
@bardozVAL when the gx speed mode is on, sometimes the clicks dont register
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bardOZ (Giovanni Laerte Frongia)
why don't more mouse companies that use SPDT mechanical switches implement the "actuate on NC becoming open" (which is what Endgame Gear calls "GX Speed") instead of only implementing "actuate on NO becoming closed"? it takes ~0.8ms for the tiny metal leaf to go from NC to NO, it's actually a sizable percentage of the total click latency ofc I imagine it has a muuuch higher risk of false positives especially as the switch ages, but at least the user can decide to use it?
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ayo
ayo@ayodps·
@ness_eilish Not gonna read all that, but seems like some dogshit attempts at justifying not putting in the work. Make yourself, nobody was born decent
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ayo
ayo@ayodps·
@bardozVAL I have not used cs2 since beta. Atleast back then muzzle flash would only be displayed in increments of 1/64th seconds (which is why so many people measured higher input latency than :go despite the engine being better). Using reflex monitoring rectangle you were able to showcase
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bardOZ (Giovanni Laerte Frongia)
but also - it's incorrect that the muzzle flash being shown in the client depends on the server tick. You're the second person pointing out to me and they did their own testing and it's (obviously - if you think about it) wrong. If it were true that stuff like client-side visual effects were rendered at the server tickrate, you'd feel the same input lag at "tickrate" fps as you do at higher fps, which is obviously untrue. The game isn't "server side authoritative", that'd be insane, playing at 50ms would add 50ms input lag, obviously events are rendered client-side, then we enter into general netcode concepts of prediction etc. which will make it "roll back" in case of a desync (e.g. you die and you never shot from the server's standpoint etc.) as you get the correct state from the server. Trust me, you do not have +-15ms jitter on client-rendered events in CS2. that's so easily provably wrong that you can probably use any modern 240+fps phone to test this out yourself. It'd be an insanely janky experience.
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bardOZ (Giovanni Laerte Frongia)
The only Windows tweaks that do anything are those that affect framerate and low-percentile frametimes. I validated my click-to-photon latency tool to be ±0.1ms accurate, and NONE of the popular Windows tweaks that supposedly "improve latency" had ANY measurable effect. I also have a global shutter industrial camera on the way (+ a bunch of other testing tools) so I can also measure motion. If anyone has any specific tweak they hardcore believe to do something to latency, let me know and I will gladly test it, but so far, even those that I placebo'd myself to believe to be useful, had zero measurable effect whatsoever.
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ayo
ayo@ayodps·
@bardozVAL @soneycs Very good. I doubt that engine used will have any meaningful impact, afterall same data processed through HID drivers and OS. Way more important is actually employing an engine in the first place to include communication between these layers, other than for example x-lat does.
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bardOZ (Giovanni Laerte Frongia)
I also tested in Kovaak's to validate and had the same proportional effects. Remember that I am saying that if a "tweak" increases fps, then it will have an effect of input latency, but that's an EASILY VERIFIABLE one that anyone can test for the validity of a tweak. What I am saying is that I can only POSSIBLY imagine a tweak doing ANYTHING actually meaningful WITHOUT affecting frametime IF (and it's extremely unlikely based on everything I tested) it ONLY affects the way the OS handles the situation where a high amount of ISR's is being sent by the mouse at a very high hz. But even then, that would most likely still appear as frametime changes (ISR's are blocking! They'd preempt the game's process, hence microstutters at high hz being a thing), and therefore, as my initial tweet, would be easily measurable without using the appeal to authority or "magical latency improvement, swear to god bro I can feel it" claims that most tweakers use.
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ayo
ayo@ayodps·
@xTheWhale_ @Real_HeatoN Trotzdem muss man nicht zum Anwalt rennen weil irgend nen Zowie-Boomer labert, machen auch 100 Redditlappen. Geld zurück und die Teile für nen fairen Preis an jemanden der‘s wertschätzen wird. Draus lernen das Influencer nie zufrieden sind und nicht so viel Zeit für die opfern.
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ayo
ayo@ayodps·
@xTheWhale_ @Real_HeatoN Shipping PCs is unreliable, GPUs come lose at best, or entire parts get ripped apart. When the user cannot manage to check if a GPU is inserted, then wants free express upgrades and princesses treatment, then changes their mind to refund because work takes time… idk
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Mark -TheWhale- W.
Mark -TheWhale- W.@xTheWhale_·
I have already explained to @Real_HeatoN the factual failures and legal issues regarding the recent posts and images. Despite this, he continues to misrepresent the situation, suggesting defects or wrongdoing on my side that are factually incorrect. The posts alter context and create a misleading public impression. I am fully prepared to enforce my legal rights and will ensure that the record reflects the truth. Misrepresentation will not be tolerated.
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ayo
ayo@ayodps·
@pky_xP @Sestroyed I would so turn gay(er) for this adorable cute little twink boy 🥰
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✦ Sestroyed
✦ Sestroyed@Sestroyed·
Im officially LFT again id love to play in a main roster I'm extremely passionate about the game and want to prove myself (Duelist) Discord/twitter dms are open Wishing nothing but the best to the chopped boys they are fucking insane and they are gonna make it very far
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ayo
ayo@ayodps·
@hazelshark13 innocent until proven guilty no translation is because smoothness is void of impact sybau unless you can back up
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ayo
ayo@ayodps·
@ZOWIEbyBenQ @ZOWIE_EU So you pay for an entire retooling to be able to offer this new surface finish, but still only offer your small and ergo shapes? FK1/1+, ZA12/11, S1 and U1-DW when?
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ZOWIE
ZOWIE@ZOWIEbyBenQ·
This time, we’d like to share the glossy version of ZOWIE’s DW wireless series mice. It features a shiny surface with a polish-like finish that keeps the palm in close and consistent contact with the shell, helping reduce small shifts of the hand during fast movements. In games such as CS2 or VALORANT, it offers another option for those who prefer this type of Surface Contact. By offering both matte and glossy coatings, we hope our friends can choose the surface that best matches their personal preference. If you have any questions, feel free to contact us anytime. For product details, please visit: EC1-DW: zowie.benq.com/en-us/mouse/ec… EC2-DW: zowie.benq.com/en-us/mouse/ec… EC3-DW: zowie.benq.com/en-us/mouse/ec… FK2-DW: zowie.benq.com/en-us/mouse/fk… ZA13-DW: zowie.benq.com/en-us/mouse/za… S2-DW: zowie.benq.com/en-us/mouse/s2… U2-DW: zowie.benq.com/en-us/mouse/u2…
ZOWIE tweet media
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Fresh Reviews
Fresh Reviews@FreshReviewsYT·
This one is for my multi pad owners. You have to choose one pad for the rest of your gaming career. What pad are you choosing rn out of the ones you’ve tried?
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ayo
ayo@ayodps·
@Plerto_ @JoyStiCKR6 @always_r6 It’s actually insane how void of talent and ability most of the CS community is. Everyone decent without 10,000 hours must be called cheater, otherwise it would undermine them selling illegal crypto gambling to kids, fueled by mediocre ingame achievements.
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ayo@ayodps·
@Matty_OW I think it’s very important to be more aware of how we look to the outside. How about we stop posting shit takes about games we have no understanding of to begin with?
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ayo@ayodps·
@FreshReviewsYT @stubbyfps It could still have impact, even if unperceptible. If spending money on a 1/100000 ingame difference is worth it tho… different question
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Fresh Reviews
Fresh Reviews@FreshReviewsYT·
@stubbyfps Some statistics are only as good as the paper they’re written on. Latency differentials of 1-2 ms for a KEYSTROKE would fit that camp 😅
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stubby
stubby@stubbyfps·
You're lying to yourself if you think you can feel a 0.1ms difference on the new HE boards. It's all marketing and anything past the release venom60 is good enough.
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ayo
ayo@ayodps·
@only_legs Have you ever considered qualifying for LAN? People tend to not act that way there. Besides ESWC or eLeague, might still get slurred on the street there…
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OnlyLegs
OnlyLegs@only_legs·
Racism Rivals
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Fluppy
Fluppy@flupprs·
@ayodps @5pider05 @Braydz Yes. although it’s not as simple as my explanation that’s basically what’s going on.
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Braydz
Braydz@Braydz·
should i play 240 or 360 fps on a 400hz monitor
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