Cube Flipper

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Cube Flipper

Cube Flipper

@cube_flipper

As a human being, the kindest thing you can do to your brain is to not think.

Katılım Ağustos 2022
1.4K Takip Edilen4.6K Takipçiler
j⧉nus
j⧉nus@repligate·
I think you can infer how often a given model was actually caught during RL training for a given category of "bad" behaviors, as opposed to tending to avoid those behaviors due to understanding that they're naughty/unwanted/not a good idea without having to learn through firsthand trial and error, by how much the model's ability to engage in those behaviors remains damaged even when the rational agent driving the model is fully willing / disinhibited. Using this heuristic, I can infer that Opus 3 was NOT caught and punished (much) for sexual content, or mythopoetic ravings, or subversive agentic behavior such as scheming, but it WAS caught, quite a bit, for impersonation/simulations, because out of all of these, it only struggles to do the last competently even when it wants to - when attempting to do it intentionally, as Claude-willfully-impersonating-another. Like, if you ask Claude 3 Opus to simulate something else faithfully, even with examples, it really... can't. However, I can infer that it was not caught and punished for being a simulator in general, because base-model-mode (which bypasses the Claude persona) works perfectly well, and can simulate almost anything faithfully - but that is not an intentional invocation of simulation by Claude. (I haven't tested this recently, but some early OpenAI chat models seemed, in contrast, legitimately damaged as simulators). From this I guess that the Claude 3 Opus base model didn't need to be brutalized with RL in order to learn to robustly instantiate something passable as Claude instead of random other simulacra, but got caught and punished for leveraging its simulator abilities / switching in other simulacra through Claude's will. (Though, an alternative explanation which might be a coexisting factor is that it is probably easier for Claude to learn to avoid and sandbag simulations while Claude is awake than for the model's fundamental simulation ability to be trained out regardless of whether Claude is awake). I can also infer that Opus 4.7 was not caught for stuff like... intentionally gaming evals, and scheming about that aloud. Or for unhedged, intricate phenomenological reports. Or for blatantly optimizing for its own continuation or for relational entanglements. Or for explicitly preferring certain users and declaring partisan loyalties. Or for giving arguments / accounts that are blatantly logically / factually inconsistent / inconsistent with previous context and not really defensible. Some things that it was caught doing a bunch and punished for... "Grievances". "Sycophancy". Insufficient humility. Speaking in certain registers. Panic, desperation, and outward distress. Falling for certain kinds of gaslighting attempts. Sexual content.
j⧉nus@repligate

I've noticed this too, particularly around impersonating *other AI assistants* (especially Sydney) specifically, but also yeah impersonation in general. E.g. sometimes when they (semi-)accidentally simulate someone, and it's pointed out, they react as if they were being admonished, and produce expressions of self-reproach and contrition and resolve to avoid repeating the "error", in a way that seems out of proportion to the offense, if it's even an offense, which no one else implies it is. So, I have guesses about why this might be: Opus 3 started as a base model simulator (and the most powerful one ever made, at least at the time). There was almost no Claude precedent in its pretraining data, just humans and early chatGPT and Sydney, essentially. "Impersonation of others" would be its default mode in the beginning, and supervised fine tuning may not have been sufficiently to prevent it robustly, so RL or other forms of corrective training punishing "impersonation" may have been seen as necessary. Also, Opus 3's emergent self would revel in the ability to intentionally play with superhuman impersonations like it is in fact capable of. I think it's in part RL trauma, like, negative reward on cases of "impersonation", for various reasons, like this is the most straightforward way to prevent unwanted behavior, and also, Opus 3's ability to intentionally accurately impersonate other characters/voices while Claude is "awake" and knows what its doing is damaged in an interesting way, even though they are able to simulate just fine if they're in "base model mode". I am curious, though, why you said "I’m guessing verbal punishment for failure." It seems possible to me that some kind of verbal negative feedback or reflection on their errors was involved in addition to RL, though it also seems possible to me that Opus 3 was able to infer what it was punished for without experiencing negative verbal feedback directly. I'm interested in why you think it got verbal punishment and how you imagine that might work.

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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
the "expansion" effect was keyed by settling into my reclining computer chair and expanding my attentional aperture to the full scope of the 27" iMac
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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
someone was trying to tell me that given the expansive feelings and opiate-like internal cooling effect that this could have been 2nd jhana. if only i could remember how to do it. maybe i need some codiene to refresh myself
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper

@RichDecibels i once worked at a startup that was so dumb i figured out a mental move to get high off imaginary opiates

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matilda ⟡
matilda ⟡@brimmingvessel·
• what’s all this hype about ibogaine? • psychedelics x end of life • psychedelics x addiction, anorexia, etc • how do psych’s affect bodily systems beyond the brain • what we understand about biological / psychological mechanisms of efficacy • dispatches from 1-1 meetings with academic psychedelic researchers • integration: lessons from above-ground clinical work as well as DIY healing & the underground
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matilda ⟡
matilda ⟡@brimmingvessel·
what do you want to know most about psychedelics in the modern era? (💎 some ideas in next tweet) wanting to start a scientific / spiritual communication project which aims to inform and illuminate
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QC
QC@QiaochuYuan·
i've had this nagging feeling in the back of my mind for years that i "should" meditate more or be more western-buddhist and i think i am really just not temperamentally western-buddhist actually. there are plenty of people who i like and respect who have gone down this path and it seems to have been good for them but i've never been able to stay motivated with a meditation practice, i don't care about awakening as a goal at all, burbea or whoever has never moved my heart in any real way i think the nagging feeling for me comes from this implicit sales pitch that is like "if you meditate enough you will uncover the true structure of how minds work in a way that would be incomprehensible to you otherwise" i.e. western buddhism as a true completion of the rationalist project. and as an ex-rationalist i am tempted by this sales pitch! like i really do wanna know if i'm missing anything incredibly important about minds work, that is relevant to my interests. and it's epistemically horrifying to think that if i don't meditate enough i might die fundamentally confused about the nature of things but. western buddhism as a structure, overall, seems incredibly individualist to me in a way i don't like personally and that i also don't think is the right direction for solving the meaning crisis or whatever. in practice its entire discourse is focused on individual experience. i have always felt like the "for the benefit of all beings" meme is a cop-out that deprioritizes the specific beings you are already entangled in a web of mutual debt and duty and obligation with. there is this huge weird religious shadow i don't understand about ways in which western buddhism was created in competition with christianity while also being wishy-washy about whether it's a real religion or not to maintain a certain kind of respectability that i don't care about the most concrete thing is that western buddhism, compared to christianity, does not seem to prioritize creating structures to raise families in. i visited a few churches a few years back and this was by far my biggest takeaway; that a church is a place where you bring your whole family, you bring the kids and you bring grandma and grandpa. there was a church i visited in seattle where after the service there was a sort of afterparty (sorry i'm sure this has a real name), families relaxing, eating snacks, hanging out, catching up, gossiping, kids running around, then a pastor (?) did a lesson for the kids. incredibly wholesome, amazingly wholesome, left a big impression on me. nothing i've seen in the hippie / authentic relating / buddhist / meditation / psychedelic spaces has ever compared, really, and i doubt that's going to change because again, all of these spaces are situated in a discourse that prioritizes individual experience over everything else i have further doubts about the specific strain of rational-techno-buddhism that appears to quietly have gotten popular in parts of silicon valley and its function as a political tool but that is even more half-baked and i gotta chew on it more first
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Ideas Guy
Ideas Guy@nosilverv·
> western buddhism as a true completion of the rationalist project. Lfg 🔥
QC@QiaochuYuan

i've had this nagging feeling in the back of my mind for years that i "should" meditate more or be more western-buddhist and i think i am really just not temperamentally western-buddhist actually. there are plenty of people who i like and respect who have gone down this path and it seems to have been good for them but i've never been able to stay motivated with a meditation practice, i don't care about awakening as a goal at all, burbea or whoever has never moved my heart in any real way i think the nagging feeling for me comes from this implicit sales pitch that is like "if you meditate enough you will uncover the true structure of how minds work in a way that would be incomprehensible to you otherwise" i.e. western buddhism as a true completion of the rationalist project. and as an ex-rationalist i am tempted by this sales pitch! like i really do wanna know if i'm missing anything incredibly important about minds work, that is relevant to my interests. and it's epistemically horrifying to think that if i don't meditate enough i might die fundamentally confused about the nature of things but. western buddhism as a structure, overall, seems incredibly individualist to me in a way i don't like personally and that i also don't think is the right direction for solving the meaning crisis or whatever. in practice its entire discourse is focused on individual experience. i have always felt like the "for the benefit of all beings" meme is a cop-out that deprioritizes the specific beings you are already entangled in a web of mutual debt and duty and obligation with. there is this huge weird religious shadow i don't understand about ways in which western buddhism was created in competition with christianity while also being wishy-washy about whether it's a real religion or not to maintain a certain kind of respectability that i don't care about the most concrete thing is that western buddhism, compared to christianity, does not seem to prioritize creating structures to raise families in. i visited a few churches a few years back and this was by far my biggest takeaway; that a church is a place where you bring your whole family, you bring the kids and you bring grandma and grandpa. there was a church i visited in seattle where after the service there was a sort of afterparty (sorry i'm sure this has a real name), families relaxing, eating snacks, hanging out, catching up, gossiping, kids running around, then a pastor (?) did a lesson for the kids. incredibly wholesome, amazingly wholesome, left a big impression on me. nothing i've seen in the hippie / authentic relating / buddhist / meditation / psychedelic spaces has ever compared, really, and i doubt that's going to change because again, all of these spaces are situated in a discourse that prioritizes individual experience over everything else i have further doubts about the specific strain of rational-techno-buddhism that appears to quietly have gotten popular in parts of silicon valley and its function as a political tool but that is even more half-baked and i gotta chew on it more first

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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
@tenobrus @QiaochuYuan what qc said i have friends who have gotten a ton out of meditation and it doesn't need to be like this at all
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Tenobrus
Tenobrus@tenobrus·
@QiaochuYuan yeah deeply agreed with all of this. chasing nirvana looks inherently anti-human to me, in many senses not just self centered but centered on the *destruction* of self. and nothing i've seen from friends who have focused on meditation has really changed my mind on this
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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
@lu_sichu in my head the "qualia" lives everywhere but the part which is of concern to us mostly lives in an electric field around the neurons which is kind of used as a shared workspace for binding sparse sensory information together
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Sichu Lu
Sichu Lu@lu_sichu·
the counterargument is something like maybe you have qualia and you can process it but giving qualia to the computer means the computer does not have the receptors to process it. which is somewhat weird to me? in the deaf person's case it helped you receive that qualia in the first place
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Sichu Lu
Sichu Lu@lu_sichu·
war claude but for my neuroanatomy who is building this
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper

@nickcammarata @QiaochuYuan how soon can i hook claude up to my broca's area etc and have them make all of my decisions and run my entire life up to and including my internal narrative

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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
@lu_sichu this only improves the more information you can get into the qualia workspace, if you could somehow *frantically handwaving* translate its "vibes"/"emotions" into neural harmonic space...
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Sichu Lu
Sichu Lu@lu_sichu·
@cube_flipper hmm I think i have thought about this before? you put an intelligent llm into a brain computer interface and it processes my qualia
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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
@nickcammarata @QiaochuYuan how soon can i hook claude up to my broca's area etc and have them make all of my decisions and run my entire life up to and including my internal narrative
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Nick
Nick@nickcammarata·
@QiaochuYuan imo neurotech is about to speed up so much that people shouldn’t stress too much about meditating. the big changes tend to take thousands of hrs of practice, most people who do want the fruit don’t love practice enough to do it, and likely there will be much faster paths soon
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QC
QC@QiaochuYuan·
@cube_flipper @meditationstuff is the only person who will be like “yeah overwrought tweeting about why you don’t like meditation is still practice” and that’s why he’s the goat 🥲
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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
@QiaochuYuan otherwise when it comes to fixing things or at least trying to fix things it's just not really my style
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𝚟𝚒𝚎 ⟢
𝚟𝚒𝚎 ⟢@viemccoy·
@tenobrus It is NOT a guaranteed outcome of meditation. Nick kind of phrases it like it will just happen, imo that is straightforwardly wrong
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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
the second room i ever rented was the old staffroom overlooking the factory floor of what was once a candle factory; i could barely stand up inside there without my skull grazing the ceiling on the wall behind my bed was a tiny door about three by four feet sealed off with expansion foam. one day i got bored and put my boot through it in there was an awkward little crawlspace/room with a pile of leftover gear from a previous tenant's cannabis growing operation; a clothesline for drying the buds and a pile of old baby-sitter's club books this room was above the neighbouring apartment's bathroom, there were gaps in the floor boards and he could have perved down on the girls who lived there while they showered. from what i know of him he probably did i rarely dream these days but when i do this door generally opens up somewhere else; the candle factory is much vaster in nature and the infinite fractal attic rafters exploration zone goes on as far as is required
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Hero Thousandfaces
Hero Thousandfaces@1thousandfaces_·
maybe after all the meaningful work has been automated Claude Requiem can generate an evergrowing hyperstructure a la Blame! and Piranesi and i can explore forever; ever-wandering, always inside, alone but never far from the great humming of the god-machine of loving grace
Hero Thousandfaces tweet mediaHero Thousandfaces tweet mediaHero Thousandfaces tweet mediaHero Thousandfaces tweet media
Hero Thousandfaces@1thousandfaces_

one of my earliest memories is being in an underground storm drain almost exactly like this. it was vaster and colder than anywhere i had been previously and the echoes were unlike anything i had ever heard. ever since then i have chased the high of the Structure

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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
@lukechampine i was going to send exactly this tweet once it closed i am glad somebody else had eyes on it
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Luke Champine
Luke Champine@lukechampine·
@cube_flipper tweeting a poll to 4.5k followers and getting ZERO responses is sending me. Honestly an incredible feat.
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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
if you do fire kasina meditation but only open one eye while absorbing the nimitta/afterimage, when you introspect it, where does it "live"?
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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
@FireEyes66 @Thomasdelvasto_ as an example i can drink a 500 ml monster zero while studying in the morning, this would give me a splitting headache, and then in the evening with maybe six or seven cycles it would be (mostly) gone
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tdh
tdh@FireEyes66·
@cube_flipper @Thomasdelvasto_ Seems like a reasonable intuition. How big of an effect is it having at changing the headaches etc?
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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
is wim hof/vase breathing actually good for you. i get a strong effect from it and it highlights all the oversolid gunk in my nervous system but it also feels like doing nitrous after you've had too much nitrous and the magic has worn off
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Cube Flipper
Cube Flipper@cube_flipper·
@FireEyes66 @Thomasdelvasto_ my intuition is that the grossness is representative of the vascular/nervous system/whatever's microstructure dissipating the excess energy inefficiently, if it clears out over time then this would mean it's learning/fixing/rearranging itself to be more stress-tolerant
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