Dan

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Dan

Dan

@DanSimerman

Co-Founder of Temple Digital Group @temple_ny

Proof Katılım Nisan 2009
3.9K Takip Edilen7K Takipçiler
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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
Incredibly grateful to share Temple’s $5M fundraise and support from @Papervc, @yzilabs, @CMT_Digital, @Sfermion_, @GSR_io, @SeliniCapital, @halo__xyz, @ProtagonistXYZ. @Presto_Labs, @EternaCapital, 5N Canton, AMA, G20 and our angels. Thanks to @CantonNetwork, Temple is positioned to be one of the first privacy-focused technical stacks for capital markets, supporting both traditional financial instruments and emerging digital asset classes.
Temple@temple_ny

Temple has raised $5M to build the first privacy focused technical stack to trade capital markets on @CantonNetwork. Read our full announcement here: templedigitalgroup.com/news/temple-ra…

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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
@lex_node Idk I’ve seen a lot of those get hacked over the years as well
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Dan@DanSimerman·
@Etherealize_io @antiprosynth Ah yes recounting my many conversations over the years with institutions telling me how much they love solidity 🤠
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Etherealize
Etherealize@Etherealize_io·
zkSync founder: “Ethereum is the only option” for institutions “Tempo is a venture by Stripe. Obviously Stripe, as a large payments processor, wants to have their own network . . . And of course, all of [these organizations] will try to get everyone else on their network. But guess what? That’s precisely the reason why it’s never going to happen.” Alex Gluchowski explains: “Yes, Stripe wants everything to happen on Tempo, but JP Morgan wants everything to happen on JP Morgan Chain. And Circle wants everything to happen on Arc. And so on and so forth. They will never agree. The large players will never agree to build on the infrastructure of another large player. This is why Ethereum is the only option — it’s the only way forward as the neutral infrastructure that everyone can agree on.” Source: @zksync @therollupco
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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
@nickwh8te Serious question: what is cyberpunk about Celestia?
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Nick White
Nick White@nickwh8te·
Zcash's comeback is extremely inspiring to me. After the early hype faded, the core team and community persisted through YEARS of seeming irrelevance, sticking to their vision of unstoppable private money. That conviction is now paying off. Celestia has the same DNA. A cypherpunk vision of abundant, unstoppable blockspace, verifiable by anyone in the world. The early hype has faded, but we have a cracked core team committed to the mission, ready to keep going for however long it takes. We'll see it through.
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Sean Bowe
Sean Bowe@ebfull·
Dev (@zkDragon) and I were talking about the near-future roadmap of quantum resilience in Zcash when these new papers dropped. His team has been working to bring ML-KEM and PIR into Zcash's payment protocol, for PQ privacy!
Project Tachyon@TachyonZcash

Sean Bowe (@ebfull) and Dev (@zkDragon) recently did a whiteboard session to discuss Zcash's post-quantum roadmap: recoverability very soon, using PIR w/ the Tachyon upgrade to achieve full PQ privacy, and setting the stage for PQ soundness alongside major scale improvements.

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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
@0xamericanspiri Are you factoring in that over time $TAO could become a store of value for the AI/machine economy. Different economics than pure revenue. This is like the analysts trying to predict the best L1’s years ago by how much “revenue” they were generating.
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Composability Kyle.hl 🧪
Composability Kyle.hl 🧪@0xamericanspiri·
The core problem with $TAO is that revenue is circular. Miners earn $TAO emissions, validators earn $TAO emissions, subnet operators earn $TAO emissions. The question is how much of the revenue comes from external customers paying real dollars for A.I. services who would otherwise buy from OpenAI or Google. That number is almost certainly a fraction of the topline figures reported. This is the classic crypto problem: the ecosystem looks productive internally but the value flows are largely endogenous. Miners spend money on GPUs, earn TAO, sell TAO, and the "revenue" is mostly recycled token emissions.
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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
@0xgoku_ @const_reborn @bart_hillerich @KyleSamani Maybe if you were building an app - but the subnet terminology (across ecosystems) made it very hard to project value - both as a standalone network and/or against the ceiling of the underlying protocols value. You didn’t get that new protocol premium from VCs.
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const
const@const_reborn·
Many years back @KyleSamani and I had a call. He dropped at 5 minutes because i said we used a 21M Bitcoin style supply curve. Happy to pickup the conversation where we left off.
Kyle Samani@KyleSamani

I'm debating @Jason next week about TAO What is everything I need to know about TAO going into the debate? Give me the good, the bad, and the ugly please!

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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
@zeebradoom We are not anywhere near the end of protocol + proof based system development. The problem is the surface area for experimentation.
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Derrick - Investing at Big Brain Holdings
I think a lot of people in crypto venture have fallen into a slump, feeling like the space is uninspiring and that the talent has left. Fear not, there are still some places with insane talent and innovation: - payments (issuing bank, acquiring bank, aml, on/off ramps, float management, card issuance, neobanks, UX improvements, CEX/DEX integrations, insurance, merchant onboarding/interchange rate negotiation) - prediction markets (resolution, float management, sports market data aggregation/data pipelining, node colocation/integration with existing exchange infrastructure, indices, packaged markets, multi-step markets, continuous markets, bond-like products, private credit-like products) - consensus/protocol engineering (@commonwarexyz shipping upgrades like it's 2021 and the competition is still fierce) - MEV/order routing (propAMMs, solving networks, builder economics, orderflow mempools/marketplaces, upcoming MCP upgrades!!!) who knows about the future of altcoins but the future of crypto venture is bright. keep your head up king.
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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
@mert Yes but what about crosslink lurking in the shadows…
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mert
mert@mert·
another all time high in shielded zcash so, now we have: - zec hashrate ATH & distribution ATH - more miners on the way - zec shielded ATH - the best quantum proofing for an L1 & privacy - reduced blocktimes and sync times + scaling work underway - new dev team backed by balaji, a16z, paradigm working on product, protocol, and wallet - 2 new dev teams working on scaling and physics - new payments teams spinning up all at a time where the market need for privacy, quantum proofing, and internet-native SoVs is increasing zcash is one of the very few things that keeps me fired up about crypto and its future atm
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mert@mert

this is extremely good news the most uncomfortable part of zcash for me had been the hashrate concentration in one pool (it was over 60% at one point) but as competition increased, it's now way better and improving every day 1,000 days for encrypted money to win before AOC

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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
Dear Crypto and AI Twitter, I'm seeing a lot of great teams circling around this ZK L1 LLM distributed inference idea. If you really want this to work: 1. The base asset needs to represent a store of value. 2. You need to make it clearer what innovations you're proposing for your DAG. 3. You need to lay out programmability a bit more clearly. 4. Map out the network effects and ecosystem that gets created. Number 1 probably most important though - at a certain point you'll all be commoditizing the technicals and will compete on why your economy is valuable, and why the base asset means something in the 21st century. Is it a SOV for agents? Is it a SOV that captures value for humans within the agent decentralization movement? A representation of some unit within the agent economy we're all trying to acquire i.e. compute? Bittensor is the king here, but $TAO proper didn't innovate at the blockchain level (really), they pulled from @Polkadot. What y'all are proposing is very very different.
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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
@bobbinth There’s a whole universe of upcoming quantum Resistant/robust ZK proofs just about timing
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Bobbin's Threadbare
Bobbin's Threadbare@bobbinth·
One other thing worth noting: this doesn't affect just EC signatures, many ZKP systems are affected just as much. Broadly speaking, modern ZKP systems use one of three types of cryptography under the hood: 1. Elliptic curves (whether paring-based or not) - these are used by most SNARKs. 2. Collision-resistant hashes - these are used in STARKs and Ligero, among others. 3. Lattices - these are relatively novel but up-and-coming systems. Quantum computers, like the ones mentioned in Google's paper, will straight up break anything that uses elliptic curves (e.g., it will be possible to create proofs for computations that never happened). Hash-based and Lattice based systems are not vulnerable - but out of these, only hash-based systems are probably secure (given the underlying hash function is secure). Another aspect of this is that data encrypted with EC-based cryptography and stored on-chain may be vulnerable even now. This is because of "harvest now, decrypt later" attacks. This is especially relevant for blockchains where data (even if encrypted) once stored on-chain is accessible forever. This is one of the reasons we chose STARKs for Miden from the start. Our proof system is hash-based (and thus resistant to Quantum computers), and we use state commitments rather than encrypted state. That sidesteps the harvest-now-decrypt-later problem entirely.
Justin Drake@drakefjustin

Today is a monumentous day for quantum computing and cryptography. Two breakthrough papers just landed (links in next tweet). Both papers improve Shor's algorithm, infamous for cracking RSA and elliptic curve cryptography. The two results compound, optimising separate layers of the quantum stack. The results are shocking. I expect a narrative shift and a further R&D boost toward post-quantum cryptography. The first paper is by Google Quantum AI. They tackle the (logical) Shor algorithm, tailoring it to crack Bitcoin and Ethereum signatures. The algorithm runs on ~1K logical qubits for the 256-bit elliptic curve secp256k1. Due to the low circuit depth, a fast superconducting computer would recover private keys in minutes. I'm grateful to have joined as a late paper co-author, in large part for the chance to interact with experts and the alpha gleaned from internal discussions. The second paper is by a stealthy startup called Oratomic, with ex-Google and prominent Caltech faculty. Their starting point is Google's improvements to the logical quantum circuit. They then apply improvements at the physical layer, with tricks specific to neutral atom quantum computers. The result estimates that 26,000 atomic qubits are sufficient to break 256-bit elliptic curve signatures. This would be roughly a 40x improvement in physical qubit count over previous state-of-the-art. On the flip side, a single Shor run would take ~10 days due to the relatively slow speed of neutral atoms. Below are my key takeaways. As a disclaimer, I am not a quantum expert. Time is needed for the results to be properly vetted. Based on my interactions with the team, I have faith the Google Quantum AI results are conservative. The Oratomic paper is much harder for me to assess, especially because of the use of more exotic qLDPC codes. I will take it with a grain of salt until the dust settles. → q-day: My confidence in q-day by 2032 has shot up significantly. IMO there's at least a 10% chance that by 2032 a quantum computer recovers a secp256k1 ECDSA private key from an exposed public key. While a cryptographically-relevant quantum computer (CRQC) before 2030 still feels unlikely, now is undoubtedly the time to start preparing. → censorship: The Google paper uses a zero-knowledge (ZK) proof to demonstrate the algorithm's existence without leaking actual optimisations. From now on, assume state-of-the-art algorithms will be censored. There may be self-censorship for moral or commercial reasons, or because of government pressure. A blackout in academic publications would be a tell-tale sign. → cracking time: A superconducting quantum computer, the type Google is building, could crack keys in minutes. This is because the optimised quantum circuit is just 100M Toffoli gates, which is surprisingly shallow. (Toffoli gates are hard because they require production of so-called "magic states".) Toffoli gates would consume ~10 microseconds on a superconducting platform, totalling ~1,000 sec of Shor runtime. → latency optimisations: Two latency optimisations bring key cracking time to single-digit minutes. The first parallelises computation across quantum devices. The second involves feeding the pubkey to the quantum computer mid-flight, after a generic setup phase. → fast- and slow-clock: At first approximation there are two families of quantum computers. The fast-clock flavour, which includes superconducting and photonic architectures, runs at roughly 100 kHz. The slow-clock flavour, which includes trapped ion and neutral atom architectures, runs roughly 1,000x slower (~100 Hz, or ~1 week to crack a single key). → qubit count: The size-optimised variant of the algorithm runs on 1,200 logical qubits. On a superconducting computer with surface code error correction that's roughly 500K physical qubits, a 400:1 physical-to-logical ratio. The surface code is conservative, assuming only four-way nearest-neighbour grid connectivity. It was demonstrated last year by Google on a real quantum computer. → future gains: Low-hanging fruit is still being picked, with at least one of the Google optimisations resulting from a surprisingly simple observation. Interestingly, AI was not (yet!) tasked to find optimisations. This was also the first time authors such as Craig Gidney attacked elliptic curves (as opposed to RSA). Shor logical qubit count could plausibly go under 1K soonish. → error correction: The physical-to-logical ratio for superconducting computers could go under 100:1. For superconducting computers that would be mean ~100K physical qubits for a CRQC, two orders of magnitude away from state of the art. Neutral atoms quantum computers are amenable to error correcting codes other than the surface code. While much slower to run, they can bring down the physical to logical qubit ratio closer to 10:1. → Bitcoin PoW: Commercially-viable Bitcoin PoW via Grover's algorithm is not happening any time soon. We're talking decades, possibly centuries away. This observation should help focus the discussion on ECDSA and Schnorr. (Side note: as unofficial Bitcoin security researcher, I still believe Bitcoin PoW is cooked due to the dwindling security budget.) → team quality: The folks at Google Quantum AI are the real deal. Craig Gidney (@CraigGidney) is arguably the world's top quantum circuit optimisooor. Just last year he squeezed 10x out of Shor for RSA, bringing the physical qubit count down from 10M to 1M. Special thanks to the Google team for patiently answering all my newb questions with detailed, fact-based answers. I was expecting some hype, but found none.

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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
@zooko It really is something special
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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
@DinoMaxZK @zksync @CantonNetwork @VitalikButerin There is way more you can “enshrine” from the ZK literature outside of the ZKEVM Liquidity aggregation Privacy Partitioning / sub-networks Whether it’s the actual L1 protocol or sub protocols that eth foundation wants to release or offer in-house.
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Dino ZK (∎, 🔥)
Dino ZK (∎, 🔥)@DinoMaxZK·
Lmao the cope 😂 Ethereum IS enshrining native ZK-EVM verification on L1 in 2026. Validators will check ZK proofs instead of re-executing blocks. That is the definition of enshrinement. @VitalikButerin literally just laid it out: first ZK-EVM nodes this year as part of the Gigagas roadmap. x.com/VitalikButerin… Not “copy-paste your whole L2,” just actual protocol-level ZK. Check the roadmap before the victory lap 🫡
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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
I'm going to tell you what I've told almost every ZK team since 2021. The space suffers from an incomplete mental model of what Proof Based Communication and Zero Knowledge Proofs are capable of. Proofs are not some limited technology that makes *Ethereum* more scalable, private, or bridgeable. The implications of applying proof systems to distributed networks is that they open up a completely new design space for can be built in our industry. Proofs are incredible abstractions - you can take any arbitrary computation, turn it into a proof, and build entirely new systems around these new features. Once we better harness aggregation + recursion + local and real-time proving, I suspect that we will have very different types of network where consensus, node communication, and state can be applied in completely new ways. Way more powerful decentralized and verified applications that can coordinate between one or many layers (what ever happened to web proofs?) Think Snark Ethereum on steroids. To your point about 'taking a system built to remove trust'. ZK's trust model is entirely dependent on the setting. You can have centralized or decentralized proof systems - you can trust a network of validators or google. Interestingly enough, at a certain point proofs don't really care where they come from - if they use the same underlying proof system (or when proof aggregation matures) proofs will be able to interface with other proofs very easily - regardless of the environment. The innovations coming out of the proof system research will be applied to many, many existing and emerging networks regardless of the trust assumptions of the underlying system and in a wide range of ways ( @Zcash's Tachyon applies PCD / ZKSync tackles L2 scaling + privacy on different networks and with different approaches). I actually wasn't joking that there Is a world where @zksync integrates with @CantonNetwork in the future.
Dino ZK (∎, 🔥)@DinoMaxZK

.@zksync on @CantonNetwork? So basically: take a system built to remove trust, strip out the $ZK part, and plug it into something that runs on permissions and counterparties Bro said remove the ZK from ZKsync and thought nobody would notice

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Dino ZK (∎, 🔥)
Dino ZK (∎, 🔥)@DinoMaxZK·
@DanSimerman If you said like this and maybe then we could agree: " I actually wasn't joking that there Is a paralel universe, where logic dont exsist, and where @zksync integrates with @CantonNetwork in the future."
GIF
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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
@masonnystrom A bit more nuanced - for many privacy and compliance are precursor to even engage in the conversations around distribution liquidity and economics. For others it’s a significant preference. There is no monolithic “institutional” set it’s a gradient of organization types.
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Mason Nystrom
Mason Nystrom@masonnystrom·
What gets lost in the “institutions want privacy” debate is that it’s not a top priority for them. The top three priorities for institutions: - distribution (users) - liquidity - economics (does is save or make money) So even if you believe privacy and compliance matter, they aren’t within the top three criteria for most institutions.
Emmett | canton.network@Emmett_

What people will eventually realize is @CantonNetwork @solana and @ethereum have the same permissionless properties but only one of them have the privacy required to support regulated capital markets. There’s no denying institutions have to live in a multi-chain world but they are going to start where liquidity is deepest and has the lowest friction from architectural design, risk and compliance standpoints. This is why Canton is accelerating. Firms realize Canton provides the distribution for capital markets scale with compliance in a simple design. Maybe one day these transparent chains will figure out privacy and be able to support capital markets scale, but as of right now, only one chain can measure success in trillions… Canton.

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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
@CPerezz19 At this point a ZKEVM is relatively trivial.
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Dan
Dan@DanSimerman·
I think many fundamentally misunderstand these technologies, what they are capable of and their end states. A ZKEVM barely scratched the surface. ZK is not just some privacy or scaling solution for Ethereum. Great research is still being done within proof systems to make way for very different design spaces + systems within and outside distributed systems.
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CPerezz.eth ⟠ 🦀
CPerezz.eth ⟠ 🦀@CPerezz19·
Canton people screaming against ZKEVMs and modern cryptography usage on-chain (in the name of security) feels like horse farmers screaming against cars during industrial revolution. LMAO. Nothing against progress can actually be taken serious.
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