@shaharkaminsky I think it's impossible to forecast with too much accuracy. We should support both, and see what happens!
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hal2001.hl
6.3K posts
hal2001.hl
@hal2001
DeFi + web3 + financial engineering. Cofounder @AcrossProtocol @UMAprotocol; prev @GoldmanSachs, CS @Columbia, 🇨🇦
Canada Katılım Aralık 2007
2.7K Takip Edilen17.7K Takipçiler
Ask them a complex math question in a casual way and see if they respond too fast :)
But ignore the human vs agents. Let’s think about it in terms of intent type
I can totally see that the stable -> stable intents would be best served by off chain agreements
It seems to me like the Swiftie -> agent -> pizza intent would be best served by an on chain fee
Wdyt?
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Really grateful to the founders and the team for putting trust in me.
We've been saying internally for a long time now that the chain model is broken.
Infra alone doesn't win.
What wins is distribution and getting products into real people's hands.
That's the new mission, and we're already heads down executing.
I'll be sharing a lot of it publicly as we go.
Let's get to work.
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Thank you for your attention to this matter.
You may return to monitor the situation.
Scroll@Scroll_ZKP
An important update: Raza, who has been leading growth at Scroll for the past 2 years, is being promoted to CEO of Up Labs (the operating entity behind Scroll). This is a recognition of the work he's already been doing and a natural next step as our priorities shift. Scroll's infrastructure is now mature. The focus now shifts towards distribution, adoption, and getting Scroll into more hands, and that calls for a tighter, more execution-focused org. Haichen, the CTO of Up Labs, is joining Sandy at the Scroll Foundation to lead Scroll's technical vision. Sandy has been the director of the Foundation for the past 2 years, and continues in her role as she always has. They will both continue to actively operate in the ecosystem and work closely with the Up Labs team to guide execution. The mission for Scroll stays the same, the only thing that is changing is how we're structured internally to execute on it. Scroll's next chapter will focus on building products that reach real users, and this structure puts us in the best position to do that. Onward.
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@Src20shibs @AcrossProtocol @_TalkingTokens It’s in the proposal, but we’re targeting as low as minimum as possible. Current thinking is around $10k worth.
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On today's @_TalkingTokens, Across co-founder @hal2001 talks about our new proposal, and how Across is solving blockchain fragmentation.
Full episode below!
Talking Tokens Podcast@_TalkingTokens
Today's pod is with @hal2001, co-founder of @AcrossProtocol and @UMAprotocol We talk about Across’ new proposal, Ethereum's "war mode," solving blockchain fragmentation, the power law distribution of stablecoins, and staying the course in bear markets. Links below
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I think @AcrossProtocol validated that people *want* to own equity (up 80%++).
And it's great -- you can convert your ACX tokens, and own real equity. That's actually what we're all here for,
Unless..... you can't convert to equity, because of KYC, geographic reasons, or more.
This is what I want to do with @BedrockFndn, for us to sit on the equity table on behalf of the wider crypto audience who can't KYC, who can't participate.
That's how we can solve the problem for crypto, and turn this bullish for our industry and not bearish.
Across@AcrossProtocol
Proposal: “The Bridge Across” A temp-check exploring whether Across should evolve from a DAO + token structure into a U.S. C‑corp. via a token-to-equity exchange and token buyout. Thread and proposal below ⤵️
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I worked at Across at its inception and can attest to the team's extremely high level of thoughtfulness in everything they do. To me, this proposal represents a real path for successful projects, not always having to go down the token path for token's sake. Something many projects with all the metrics of success struggle with. The number of tokens in the market is not a measure of our industry's success
Across@AcrossProtocol
Proposal: “The Bridge Across” A temp-check exploring whether Across should evolve from a DAO + token structure into a U.S. C‑corp. via a token-to-equity exchange and token buyout. Thread and proposal below ⤵️
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hal2001.hl retweetledi
.@AcrossProtocol just proposed something extremely unique to its token holders: Exchange ACX tokens for a buyout or equity in a new C Corp
On today’s @_TalkingTokens pod, @hal2001 explains The Bridge Across proposal and:
- Why DAOs struggle with enterprise contracts
- What this means for the future of token governance
- Insights from ETH Denver on Ethereum in “war mode,” stablecoin power laws, AI agent payments and more
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 – Intro
01:54 – The Bridge Across proposal for token-to-equity exchange or USDC buyout options
02:40 – Why DAOs can't sign enterprise contracts and long tail tokens are undervalued
08:52 – Across Protocol maintaining decentralized governance and non-custodial protections
10:46 – What happens next: two-week discussion period before snapshot vote
14:13 – Intro to ETH Denver conversation
15:27 – Energy in bear markets: focus on building over hype and token prices
16:05 – Ethereum going into "war mode" with competition from Tempo and Arc
17:22 – How blockchain fragmentation benefits Across while challenging user experience
18:23 – Open Intents framework's evolution since launch
20:18 – L2 thesis not sticking as expected, but EVM architecture remains strong
24:33 – Future of blockchain interoperability and solving fragmentation for users
29:12 – Stablecoins as consumer products versus backend fintech infrastructure
34:48 – How Robinhood and Stripe are approaching stablecoin adoption differently
38:23 – Power law distribution of stablecoins as key metric for competition
42:28 – AI agents and agent-to-agent payments as natural crypto use case
43:32 – Final advice: stay the course through bear markets
Watch below:
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@hal2001 Makes tons of sense. Tokens as they exist today are extremely limiting. Even tokenized equity is very limited.
Without wholesale SEC rule reform, good old equity makes more sense and is more valuable.
Also, $1=$1 is absolutely the future.
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@A_Leutenegger @devanshmehta Big fan of Aragon and everything they pioneered.
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The most interesting thing about the proposal is the team's willingness to continue to iterate and experiment on ownership structures despite feeling seemingly entrenched.
What this proposal doesn't mean is that tokens should not exist. It means that there are certain people who believe a token structure doesn't make sense for the Across protocol at this time.
Crypto has way too many tokens. Probably 99% of all tokens were launched in the last two years as organizations pushed memecoins, creator coins and other forms of speculation very aggressively. That was a catastrophic mistake.
Tokens often do have function. They are easier to utilize in crypto than equity, and they are also easier to manifest a representation of decentralized governance.
Tokens are not bad or pointless. Tokens that don't have any economic value associated with them are. There are still many use cases where equity (even tokenized equity just simply does not work).
These distinctions matter.
Congrats to the Across team on this proposal. Tracking closely!
Across@AcrossProtocol
Proposal: “The Bridge Across” A temp-check exploring whether Across should evolve from a DAO + token structure into a U.S. C‑corp. via a token-to-equity exchange and token buyout. Thread and proposal below ⤵️
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The end-state for most crypto tokens is to become protocol equity
A digital asset that serves as a claim on the future positive cash flows of a blockchain-based protocol
However, much like with scaling chains, while the end goal is clear, there are many different paths toward this end state
- Companies tokenizing their traditional equity chain
- Token-to-equity exchange + token buyout programs
- Equity-like value distributions via token buybacks & staking rewards
- Investor Relations platforms and regular financial disclosure reports
All industry trends that I expect to accelerate as this asset class matures and begins to take in more TradFi capital
This is healthy
Not every protocol will succeed and become cash flow positive, but those that do, present the largest opportunity for token investors
No ponzinomics or mental gymnastics required
Across@AcrossProtocol
Proposal: “The Bridge Across” A temp-check exploring whether Across should evolve from a DAO + token structure into a U.S. C‑corp. via a token-to-equity exchange and token buyout. Thread and proposal below ⤵️
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@Treggs6 Very thoughtful post. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
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@shaharkaminsky This is slightly tongue in cheek, but why should agents be treated differently than humans? (And how could you tell them apart anyways?) Stablecoins want usage from both humans and agents—they earn their yield either way!
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@hal2001 End users shouldn’t lose money on $ to $ movements when there are parties that are profiting from these conversions
It makes sense to be a service provider to these parties and have an off chain pricing
But aren’t protocol fees kind of perfect for agentic intents?
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2 types of tokens: decentralized network tokens, and app tokens meant to be like equity. Some are a bit of both.
The latter works best if you’re trying to align consumers with growth. Works less well with enterprise users.
This move makes sense and is good thing to do by token holders.
hal2001.hl@hal2001
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hal2001.hl retweetledi
I’ve been learning from DeFi Dad for a long time, and it feels a little like a full circle moment to be able to work with @edge_pod on sharing this story.
If you want more insight on what today’s announcement means or where @AcrossProtocol is going, give this a listen.
Lfg.
DeFi Dad ⟠ defidad.eth@DeFi_Dad
🎙️ New @edge_pod 📢 Across Token Buyout: The First Proposal to Convert Back to a Private Company 0:00 - Intro 1:27 - Hart’s background with Risk Labs 4:46 - ACX token buyout proposal 9:13 - How the token buyout works 10:58 - History of the ACX token 14:26 - High FDV tokens and broken markets 18:54 - Token challenges 20:13 - ACX ownership: DAO, investors, retail 24:32 - Token-to-equity conversion 25:35 - $25M Across treasury for buyout 28:38 - Making stablecoin bridging free for users 36:09 - Why DAOs struggle with B2B contracts 40:39 - How new business works with stablecoins 42:28 - What are intents and their $1 = $1 vision 45:58 - Three paths to success 47:30 - Closing 🙏 Thanks to @AcrossProtocol CoFounder @hal2001 for joining us!
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Yes, fair points. I'm on the board of the Uniswap foundation and helped negotiate their Labs <> Foundation service agreement (so I've spend a lot of time thinking about this sort of thing). The difference for Uniswap/Morph/etc is that their basic revenue model is onchain. For Across... that's evolving. Many of the bespoke agreements that make sense for Across integrators are out-of-protocol, and it's rather wonky to try to disclose / force those into onchain structures (disclosing them also leaks alpha to competitors). But your points are valid, and that's part of this discussion.
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I'm not sure the DAO-foundation disconnect fully explains the need for a complete token buyout. That disconnect is true for the entire industry and others have navigated it without eliminating their token.
Morpho is the obvious example. The recent restructuring of Maple probably also falls into this category.
So the commercial argument makes sense, but it doesn't seem to require a full buyout imo
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@julius_nagel It's not a bad idea, but the core problem is the relationship between the DAO and the foundation. The DAO and the foundation still remain legally disconnected.
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@DeanEigenmann sorry dean, I missed responding to this earlier. Someone else asked a similar question. I very much like the idea of tokenized equity, as a potential step 2. x.com/hal2001/status…
hal2001.hl@hal2001
@VentureWeb3 If this proposal passes, I'd love to consider tokenizing the equity in the future. But my thinking is one thing at a time. If this goes through, we start as traditional equity and then can look at tokenization options from there.
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@EvanBDuggan Hey Evan, the 250k minimum is a target for legal / reg / admin purposes. If the proposal moves forward, we will react to interest token holder indicate in their token-to-equity conversion and see if we can move it lower. The goal is to have the minimums be as low as possible.
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@hal2001 Hi Hart, for ACX holders who hold fewer than 250k ACX, it sounds like they won't qualify for direct equity conversion or no-fee SPV equity exchange, according to the proposal. Does that mean their only option is the ACX buy out? Thx.
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is this the first token-to-equity event in crypto?
Yogita Khatri@Yogita_Khatri5
Across Protocol wants to become a private company 👀 @paradigm-backed @AcrossProtocol posted a temperature-check proposal exploring a move from a DAO to a U.S. C-corp where ACX holders could exchange tokens for equity. If approved by the community, holders could either • exchange ACX for equity at a 1:1 ratio, or • redeem tokens for $0.04375 in USDC, a 25% premium to the one-month average price. ACX is already up over 33% since the proposal.
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It feels like we've come full circle: from trying to tokenise everything to projects now moving back to equities.
Kudos to the Across team for giving their tokenholders that option, fair played imo.
Most teams, unfortunately, would have made a far less principled decision.
The Block@TheBlockCo
EXCLUSIVE: Paradigm-backed Across Protocol explores letting ACX holders exchange tokens for equity theblock.co/post/393192/pa…
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