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Sandie Smith
55K posts
Sandie Smith
@sanshee01
Mum of one, Zappa, Incredible String Band, Ambient/Techno, a bit of Baroque/Chamber, charity shops, walking, herbs and spices, who'ma gonna vote for now?
Scotland, United Kingdom Katılım Şubat 2013
3.6K Takip Edilen2.6K Takipçiler
@spectator There's a hardline all or nothing from some pro choice advocates.
I am not opposed to abortion as a right, but as with all rights should come with responsibilities.
Those responsibilities are being abandoned
Does not bode well for society or attitudes going forward.
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Last week, the body of an 18-day old baby girl was found in Westminster, in desperately sad circumstances. The baby’s mother has since been charged with her murder and stands accused of throwing her daughter out of a third-floor window.
Five days later, and a few streets away, the House of Lords voted to approve the Crime and Policing Bill – including the controversial amendment, Clause 208. Proposed by the Labour MP Tonia Antoniazzi, Clause 208 would decriminalise self-administered abortions after the 24-week limit.
✍️ Madeline Grant
Article | spectator.com/article/decrim…
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@UnityNewsNet None of us advocate eating our pets but most eat other animals.
That is not an argument for banning meat though some would say it is, but
distinction made.
If we forget the distinction between an early stage abortion and a fully formed baby corpse we are screwed as a society.
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@francesbarber13 For someone so revered for being such a polished great communicator saving so many lives during covid you'd think all her disciples would have noticed this momentous day.
But no it's 'Nicola who's farewell speech where?'
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She deserves a life of absolute fucking misery
The Herald@heraldscotland
An emotional Nicola Sturgeon makes her final contribution in Holyrood. The former FM is stepping away after 27 years. "For the sake of the children who rely on us to look after them ... to those who will occupy these benches in a few weeks time, keep the promise."
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@DuncanHenry78 @jenn26265 And in a way a 'nothing to do with me gov' hand wringing from medical profession.
Here's your pills, do as you wish.
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This is also one of my many many concerns.
Some lords were raising red flags but it’s all been lost in ideological point scoring.
From bbc. “Referring to the Commons decision, the Archbishop said: "Though its intention may not be to change the 24 week abortion limit, it undoubtedly risks eroding the safeguards and enforcement of those legal limits and inadvertently undermining the value of human life".”
Yeah. That’s a valid point!
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This whole debate on abortion has predictably turned into ad hominem attacks, disingenuous framing and appeal to emotion based on whatever “side” you’re on.
This is why we end up with bad laws.
Bad politicians, bad arguments, bad faith.
And in this case *on both sides*
“Frothing hatred” to characterise someone who opposes full term abortion is completely disingenuous.
I *oppose* abortion after the point at which the baby could survive outside the mother’s womb.
I also *oppose* automatically criminalising women who have ended their own pregnancy or sought out a late abortion.
The framing is all about “allowing” or “legalising” abortion up to birth. I don’t think that’s the right way of looking at it at all. It’s not even what the intent of the law change is.
The intent is to not automatically criminalise a woman who has had a late term abortion.
That - and that alone - I support. There are many many issues I still have that have been raised more articulately by others (and who get ignored in the “us vs them” mentality of this debate. Along with it seems *every other debate* lately) about “and then what”?
HOW do we ensure a woman who has had a late term abortion gets the right care and possible interventions that led to this situation?
HOW do we prevent coercion?
HOW do we make sure women are never put in a position of doing this in the first place?
And yes, HOW do we make sure that people don’t think late term abortions are perfectly “ok” and a sensible option (because they are not).
The law may be bad. The intent wasn’t. If it ends up bad it’s because people are too busy yelling at one another that the other “side” is morally wrong and not discussing how to safeguard the well being of women and children in difficult situations.
End rant.
Ella Whelan@Ella_M_Whelan
This kind of frothing hatred for women's freedom is just so out of touch with public opinion on abortion. MPs with even the tiniest liberal bone in their body need to have some courage and come out and defend our bodily autonomy, because at the moment Westminster is sounding like a house full of loons.
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@MichelleTamkin @thevicarswife @Bornawoman99 Burying/concealing the corpse of a baby you have birthed shouldn't be a crime because it is 'her body'.
Can you hear yourself?
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Twitter is a bin fire tonight.
People: LATE TERM ABORTION IS STILL ILLEGAL IN THE UK.
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@clarke_bob64974 @simplem_ths @peterrhague Amazing for all the super confident 'nothing had changed you ignoramus' they have no clue that something rather big has.
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@simplem_ths @peterrhague The same way Sarah Louise Catt killed her baby in the womb because she was suffering with 'anxiety' because of an affair she was having. She wanted to conceal the affair and killed her baby.
Something like that, you know.
Now address what I'm asking you.
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This isn’t nuance - it’s mindless wordplay. “Decriminalising women” does not mean anything. It doesn’t matter what you think the change is “about”, it is a fact that the change means the law will no longer act against a women having a third trimester elective abortion.
Alex Price@simplem_ths
@imperimnowtwrng @peterrhague The House of Lords did NOT legalise “abortion up to birth.” The change is about decriminalising women, not expanding late term abortion access. The 24-week limit and strict medical rules still apply. Sorry you can't do legal nuance.
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@Dis_Critic Gone are the days sections of the media were all over her every word 'great communicator/polished/so informative during covid' now it's 'Nicola who has left where'?
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Nicola Sturgeon Destroyer of Women's Rights, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Women. Won't. Wheesht.
The Herald@heraldscotland
An emotional Nicola Sturgeon makes her final contribution in Holyrood. The former FM is stepping away after 27 years. "For the sake of the children who rely on us to look after them ... to those who will occupy these benches in a few weeks time, keep the promise."
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@TonyDowson5 How could another Catt now be prosecuted? Someone has suggested to me that it would be for 'obtaining illegal drugs', which seems inadequate for what has happened. And these drugs were not illegal in any case, although obtained by deception.
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"If she was to do this at home (wholly unprecedented) and the fetus was viable, it would come under infanticide."
Not true - what's being decriminalised is section 58 of the Offences Against the Person Act.
Infanticide doesn't apply to destruction in the womb.
Madelaine Hanson@MadelaineLucyH
Wrong. There is NO legal pathway or clinical precedent for a healthy woman with a viable pregnancy to obtain an elective abortion at 9 months in the UK. Late-term abortions are tightly restricted and only permitted in serious medical circumstances. If she was to do this at home (wholly unprecedented) and the fetus was viable, it would come under infanticide.
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@DuncanHenry78 @jenn26265 Relaxing access to abortion has caused this and it's something the Lords could have voted on but didn't bother.
Anyone can order abortion pills no check on how far in pregnancy, so a dereliction of duty and care for one.
Not good for society or attitudes going forward.
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@jenn26265 See this is the sort of discussion the politicians should be having.
What is the problem?
What outcomes do we want?
What do we need to guard against?
What is the actual social situation or set of social situations?
Instead we have ideological and emotional tribalism.
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@SlottyThot @dumbboomer @MadelaineLucyH bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan…
Don't think 'multiple' is accurate but there could be more with reckless allowing of abortion pills by post, no medical checks needed.
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Ok this is completely false.
A viable child post birth is legally a child and killing her would be classed as homicide.
The only time late stage abortions (under 2%) happen are when the mother’s life is seriously at risk or the child is non-viable.
Jade Adamowicz Marsden@j_l_marsden
We now live in a country where an hour earlier, I could’ve had this perfect little girl murdered with no legal consequences. I can’t help think of the lives that will be lost. The babies and the women who will have to live with the knowledge of what they’ve done. Starmer’s utopia
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@MadelaineLucyH @Bills_gallery My God a woman was jailed then exonerated for the very thing.
And that exoneration set a precedent.
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There is no method, no practice, and no precedent for what you’re claiming. There isn’t a single case in all of British law where a woman has been prosecuted for aborting, at home, a child hours from birth.
You’re arguing a hypothetical. It’s not a crime because it doesn’t exist.
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Abortion in the UK is generally allowed up to 24 weeks, with specific medical criteria.After that, it’s only permitted in serious circumstances (risk to the mother’s life, severe fetal abnormality, etc).
There are still medical sign-offs required. It’s NOT something someone can just choose casually at any stage. NO law has been passed that says you could “have a baby murdered with no consequences an hour before birth.”
That’s just not how the system works. Doctors would be legally obliged to try and save a viable newborn.
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@Alonso_GD Women are not denied abortions in the UK.
Women can order abortion pills at any time in pregnancy with no checks.
Scope for abuse/and kr greve danger to the woman.
Own that.
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You can say “I think women who are denied an abortion and attempt one on their own as a desperate last resort should be charged with a crime and sent to jail”. You don’t need to lie and say “abortion up to birth had been legalised”. It hasn’t. Own what you believe.
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@jessasstrophe @JillBrangan But the women has to give birth to a fully formed baby corpse.
Other than a live baby which can have a life elsewhere.
My niece adopted, they have a lovely little family going on.
Someone couldn't take care of him now they do.
Stop being an idiot.
Ta
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@JillBrangan yeah sure
i’d rather the child is never born into a family that doesn’t want them or put into the adoption/foster system
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easy to call it monstrous when it’s not your body or your life on the line
Charlie Downes@cfdownes_
Abortion up to birth is monstrous. It is a symptom of a society that has utterly given up on itself. The Government has just voted to decriminalise it. Restore Britain will reverse that.
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@tractorgirly The defence seems to read from 'hardly ever happens' to 'my body my choice'.
Of course happens very rarely, but one time is one too much.
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Any woman aborting a full term baby is not human IMO.
You will still have to give birth so why not just have the baby adopted if you are so heartless that you don’t want to keep it?
Plenty women like me who weren’t lucky enough to have the gift of having a child would happily bring your child up.
Abortion at such a late stage is child murder and you will have to live with the consequences of that forever.
Or you could show a bit of humanity and give another family a chance of parenthood who would love your child.
You don’t have to agree with me but this is how I see this bill it’s inhumane.
I honestly can’t believe how depraved and low our lawmakers are in our country. What the hell are they thinking?
Kate Shemirani@KateShemirani
Remove the law, and you remove the boundary. The house of frauds. A house full of eugenicists ? Ask yourself, is this murder? That is the real issue being debated. I’ve worked in these wards. Late-term procedures are not abstract, they are complex, serious, and carry real consequences. If legislation changes, the public deserves absolute clarity on what that means in practice. It means dismembering a full term baby, but if it were born naturally, that baby would survive. My first job was in a gynaecology ward. Providing suction terminations up to 12 weeks. It’s horrific. It rips the baby to pieces. Up to 24 weeks… men are born alive and left to die in the sluice and then there are later abortions and it’s gruesome . We’re talking dismembering. We’re talking puncturing the skull and suctioning out the brain tissue. Now, ask yourself again… Is this murder? Because once the line is blurred, it cannot simply be redrawn.
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@AuroraBlueQuinn @peterrhague @Alonso_GD The dead body a fully formed baby's corpse in front of you sure isn't alive, no.
But there it is anyway.
If you can't begin to see that difference between that and abortion up to the legal limit (regardless of morals) there's something wrong with you.
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@peterrhague @Alonso_GD You can’t murder what’s not yet alive
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@Resurgamblog @roseveniceallan Abortions can be elective, face up to it.
And 'pills by post' with no medical check required deregulates anyway.
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@sanshee01 @roseveniceallan Such abortions are extremely rare, and “ elective” is a very loaded term.
And such need two specially qualified doctors to sign off on it – under a very strict circumstances – in any event
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Nobody should be criminalised for doing something to their own body. Even in tragic circumstances when a woman is heavily pregnant, her body belongs to her, not her unborn baby or the state. Late term DIY abortions are traumatic and any woman choosing that needs help, not prison.
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@Mrs_FelicityFox @Bornawoman99 bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan…
Actually happened and all you can do is repeat same 'far right Christian' stuff as tedium.
How predictable.
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@sanshee01 @Bornawoman99 Oh my… yep. It’s as I thought. You are not immune to propaganda. They won’t post it with a big “far right christian anti abortion-ers” here. They fund the messaging through misinformation. 🤦🏻♀️ are you new to the concept of how misinformation spreads? Are you twelve?
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@Mrs_FelicityFox @Bornawoman99 Simple enough for you her acquittal could lead to others?
Precedent has been set.
I don't expect a huge flurry of the same any time soon but you're naive at best to think this isn't where it's heading.
Deny it all you want.
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@sanshee01 @Bornawoman99 What jubberish are you spouting now.
fact: change to THIS one law… doesn’t remove ALL Laws.
And therefore - people can’t just “kill babies”…
Is that simple enough for you?
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