Will

@loftwah @ImLunaHey It’s not going to magically produce better code when used for production.

@wrhensel @ImLunaHey Why are you making claims about it being unable to produce production ready acceptable code when you don’t use it for that? How would you know? We are well beyond AI for small internal utility. It isn’t 2024.

Well we have hit a point where normies can ship acceptable software without knowing much about it.

@loftwah @ImLunaHey And I will just note, it’s not like I never use AI, I just don’t use it to write code unless it’s a small internal utility. It’s been a life saver when it comes to research, but still not a replacement to actually reading papers and writing code for learning’s sake.

@loftwah @ImLunaHey It does depend on what kind of work you’re doing. If it’s just web or app dev separate from handling any kind of user information, I can see the velocity argument. I’m not in web or app dev and there’s a bit more to worry about where I’m at.

@ImLunaHey @loftwah Calculators are deterministic, LLMs are not

@wrhensel @loftwah you basically said "my calculator is giving me the wrong answer" and then acted like you're not the problem.

@ImLunaHey @loftwah Not finding it necessary to outsource my job to an AI somehow shows I’m not good at my job?

@wrhensel @loftwah all that shows is you're no where near the skill level you thought you were.

The problem with the "if it works who cares what the code looks like" mindset for agentic work is that it assumes the agent has a perfect understanding of "works." Realistically, things are underspecified, agents make bad assumptions, etc. To be fair, agents are pretty good at unit test coverage. They're pretty bad at designing human experiences (API, CLI flags, etc.), especially cohesive ones for future roadmap plans they may not have visibility into (unless your backlog is perfect and vision fully laid out, which I doubt). They're bad at knowing where performance matters and what type (CPU vs memory tradeoffs). They're bad at where compatibility matters and where it doesn't (and tend to err on the side of preserving it without further guidance). Etc. Unless you have this ALL specified, you can't possibly claim "it works" without taking a look and thinking about it.

@pashedmotatos That’s a problem

Nothing gives me more visceral rage than bicyclist on main roads. Hatred consumes me

@pupsandpinot @NoMoreBikeLanes That’s a terrible comparison.

@wrhensel @NoMoreBikeLanes No one should be on their phone or texting while driving I agree. How many pedestrians cross the street staring at their phones? Too many.

bikelane fad creates congestion-on-purpose

I’ve never sat in traffic and thought, “gee I wish there wasn’t a bike lane there,” because it’s very clear that there would be traffic regardless of the bike lane. It would probably be even worse.

@pupsandpinot @NoMoreBikeLanes I’d like to have the freedom to safely ride my bike without insane car drivers on their phones running me over.

@NoMoreBikeLanes It’s a war on cars and freedom and bike lanes are only the excuse.

just never forget that the devs who yap about AI being the best thing ever all day never really knew how to program well to begin with. They are idiots telling you that the world is solved (charitable read) or worse, they are selling you something and are attempt to deceive you. This is why we see the same cycle every time. Opus 4 = God's gift to humanity to OMG its utter trash within a few months. The same thing happens with every model release because these people don't even know what dev is. They are larpers. I believe this is what Geohotz meant when he: "I’m calling it now, the adoption of AI agents into software development will be one of the most costly mistakes in the field’s history."

"AI is likely to produce neither a job apocalypse nor productivity utopia, but something harder to measure: a quiet degradation of the quality of the jobs that remain," per Bloomberg

I guess this is the natural extension of software engineers joking that all we do is copy-paste (that’s not even close to true).

@fingaz_1122 @loftwah That’s one aspect, but I’m very concerned about the future of software performance and safety.

@loftwah @wrhensel This is pretty short sighted. Shipping apps with no users isn’t hard. Shipping scalable and reliable apps with sustainable user bases literally hasn’t had enough time to be proven yet

Irony is that you claim to be a software developer and you can’t get production ready out of AI but a non technical person can.

There’s a point at which releasing vibe coded software is reckless and irresponsible. Every application can have real impact to safety and security. I’m glad most phone operating systems and web browsers have figured out sandboxing.

@loftwah Modern software is slow and bloated. AI is going to accelerate the rate at which software as a whole is degraded. It’s never been more relevant to know how to write applications without it.

@wrhensel That wasn’t the point of any of this and no one cares. It isn’t really relevant anymore. I can too.

@JaneyOccupies X number of jobs created is such a crappy measure of a thriving economy or successful policy, but it’s such a popular statistic that all presidents go after. The kickbacks from AI must be better than jobs numbers so they’re looking the other way when it comes to job killing.

Higher wages = job killer = bad Better benefits = job killer = bad Taxing the wealthy = job killer = bad AI for work = job killer = good ?

@loftwah I’ve used AI, it cannot produce anything “acceptable” in terms of a production-ready application on its own.

@wrhensel Wait until a non technical friend sends you something you can’t fault (outside of nits).