Question The Trinity

@RFupdates Which one?

Is it Possible to Know God?

@Apokalyptos_ The messiah. Not a second YHWH.

Exactly. Psalm 110 shows two figures: YHWH… and David’s Lord. Now answer this: Why does David call him “my Lord”? When does a king call his descendant “Lord”? And why is that “Lord” seated at the right hand of YHWH? Sharing His throne… His authority? So who is this “second Lord”?

So Jesus claims to be YHWH in John 8:58, but then his disciples never ask about this or call him YHWH for the of the book?

So was Jesus not told about the hour of his return? “for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you”

@Protestia Isn’t the Trinitarian saying love is perfected in three persons?

Pro-polyamory pastor gushes over how much she loves her polyamorous congregants, while praising her Lutheran (ELCA) guest preacher 'Carolina' who is in a 'throuple' relationship

For the Trinitarian claiming “Jesus is YHWH”, how do you read Psalm 110? Is YHWH Jesus talking to his human nature? Is there a 2nd YHWH who is not Jesus and he is talking to Jesus? Is the Trinity talking to themselves (or themself since Trinitarians like singular pronouns)?

@diego_claramunt Have you read Psalm 110? Are you claiming Jesus is both LORD and the Lord of the verse?

Dude is so wrong it’s insane. Appealing to distinctions between father and son is what the Trinitarian affirms because God is one tri-personal being; He is one living immaterial entity whose mind has 3 egos that are each a referent for a 1st person indexical “I”, meaning that each is a center of self-consciousness which are concrete second-order personal faculties of the divine mind which enables God to have three complete psychological personal identities. So of course scripture Will differentiate the Father from the Son because each is a different person/hypostasis/ego/“I” Scripture distinguishes the Father from the Son because they are distinct persons (hypostases). It is true that κύριος (“Lord”) can sometimes mean “sir.” However, when New Testament writers apply Old Testament texts about YHWH to Jesus, “Lord” clearly refers to YHWH—the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Tetragrammaton (YHWH) appears 6,823 times in the Hebrew Old Testament. In the Greek Septuagint, it is translated overwhelmingly by κύριος (kyrios, “Lord”)—approximately 6,156 times—far more than by θεός (theos, “God,” only about 353 times). Thus, κύριος functions as the Greek equivalent of the divine name YHWH (Jehovah) in the Old Testament. The New Testament writers take this title κύριος and apply it predominantly to Jesus (more often than θεός). They do so by quoting Old Testament proof texts that originally speak directly of YHWH and applying them to Jesus. In doing this, they explicitly identify Jesus with YHWH, attaching the divine name to him. Romans 10:9, 13 “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved… For ‘everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’” Paul states that salvation requires confessing Jesus as Lord (κύριος), because the Old Testament declares that whoever calls on the name of YHWH will be saved. The word “Lord” has the same meaning and referent in both clauses: Paul is saying one must confess Jesus as YHWH to be saved. 1 Corinthians 8:6 “Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” Here, the Father is called ὁ θεός (“the God”) and the Son is called κύριος (“the Lord”). Both are described in nearly identical terms regarding creation and existence (“from whom… through whom… for whom”). Paul thus affirms the deity of Christ while preserving the personal distinction between Father and Son. Paul has essentially taken the words of the Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4 — “The LORD [YHWH] our God, the LORD is one”) and rearranged them to include both “one God, the Father” and “one Lord, Jesus Christ.” He is not adding a second figure alongside the one God of the Shema; rather, he is identifying Jesus as the very “Lord” whom the Shema declares to be one. In this way, Paul includes Jesus within the unique divine identity of YHWH. This pattern shows the New Testament writers confessing Jesus as the divine κύριος of the Old Testament while maintaining Trinitarian distinctions.

The word’s word is not his word? “And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.”

@Apokalyptos_ Have you read Psalm 110? Do you realize there is a second Lord who is distinct from YHWH? There is a reason this Psalm is quoted more than any other in the New Testament.

You do realize how the Septuagint translates YHWH from the original Hebrew (and Aramaic) right? In the Greek OT, YHWH → “Kyrios” (Lord). John 20:28: “ho kyrios mou kai ho theos mou” = my Lord and my God So Thomas isn’t just saying “Lord”… he’s using the same term the Scriptures use for YHWH. And then adds: “my God.” There’s no way to miss this—unless you’ve already decided to reject Christ as God. At that point, no amount of evidence will convince you.

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” Where does Jesus command you to believe “that he is God”?

@Apokalyptos_ You read this as my YHWH and my God?

@QuestionTrinity They didn’t? John 20:28 — “My Lord and my God.” Jesus accepts it. So… what exactly is unclear?

@darknytPB @olusocgracia And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness.

@olusocgracia @QuestionTrinity He knows those texts and the one he ignored from the Markan passage. His m.o. is to ask more questions, ad nauseam, like a petulant child. Being obtuse just happens to be his schtick.

Not only is Son of God a divine title, but so is Son of Man. … “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One ?” And Jesus said, I am [εγω ειμι]; and you shall see the SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and coming WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.’ Tearing his clothes, the high priest said, ‘What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy…’” Mark 14:61-63 (cf. Dan 7:14; Rev 1:7).

@olusocgracia @darknytPB The NT has a broader definition of blasphemy, unless Moses is God. Then they secretly instigated men who said, “We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and God.”

@QuestionTrinity @darknytPB Blasphemy, according to the scriptures especially to Jews is equating oneself with God or making claims only God can make. "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." John 10:33

“The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority”

@PracticalTheolo When it says “he”, the writer meant the human nature….but how is the human nature the builder?

"He [Jesus] was faithful to the One who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house. For Jesus has been counted worthy of greater glory than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself." (Hebrews 3:2-3) Hold up, author of Hebrews - did you forget you just proved that Jesus literally *is Yahweh* by back at Hebrews 1:10?! Why this talk about Jesus being counted worthy of greater glory than Moses because Jesus was faithful to the One who appointed him? Wouldn't he already be counted worthy because he was the ***creator of the universe***?? 🤔

@andrew_deford So you are making the common Trinitarian move that John is saying Jesus in the YHWH Isaiah saw. So did Isaiah see the Father too, or just the Son?

@andrew_deford Yes two Gods if “God” is defined as “divine person”, which is how you define “God” when you say “Jesus is God”. Obviously you equivocate on God so that “one God” means “one God being” Back to visible and invisible God argument?

To claim Jesus “is YHWH” seems contradictory with also claiming Jesus is caused by another (via eternal generation). The divine name, in part, is connected with the idea of self-existence, eternity, and independence—a subject who simply is, without origin or limitation.

@andrew_deford They are separate God persons. So if “God” is defined as divine person, two Gods are the obvious result. It is purely wild speculation to suggest the Son is always the visible God of the OT. The NT never makes such a claim.

@QuestionTrinity That's easy. God is infinite. If the persons are separate gods, then neither is infinite, as one would end where the other began. The Son is invisible in his Deity, but is made visible in the incarnation and also when he "comes down" (Ex 3:8, John 6:38) to meet with his people.

@andrew_deford So the argument is Jesus is the visible God before the incarnation? If Jesus is the visible God and the father is the invisible God, explain how that is not two Gods. 1 Tim 1:17 To the King of the ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever.

No one has seen God at anytime. John 1:18 And they saw the God of Israel. Exodus 24:10 His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen. John 5:37 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?” Isaiah 6:8 Isaiah said this because he saw his glory and spoke about him. John 12:41 And BTW, Jesus often spoke about himself in the 3rd person.