@nuwandiss It is impossible to train 8,500 doctors and nurses in this timespan.
This could only be achieved by recruiting 8,500 care assistants and a small subgroup of trained staff, mainly from developing countries.
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Jeremy Coid
460 posts
Jeremy Coid
@CoidJeremy1
Professor of Forensic Psychiatry/Consultant Forensic psychiatrist 29 years in East London/St Bart’s and London Medical School. Now researcher in Epidemiology.
London, England เข้าร่วม Ağustos 2022
90 กำลังติดตาม259 ผู้ติดตาม
What do you mean by “workers”
We need qualified, registered staff. Doctors, nurses and allied health professionals
Not an army of unqualified “practitioners”
In what other field of medicine would the latter be acceptable?
Dr Marie Tidball MP@MarieTidball
🚨 8,500 extra mental health workers have been recruited in the NHS! We promised to recruit 8,500 more mental health workers in our manifesto, and we've delivered our target 3 years early. Promise made, promise delivered. Lots done, lots more to do.
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@NotThatBigIan It is complex and full of strange nonsenses and inconsistencies. E.g. You can no longer compulsorily admit patients with autism like Rudakubana under Section 3 to protect the public, but you could for Calocane (with some difficulty) with schizophrenia.
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@CoidJeremy1 Thanks Jeremy - I will look this up with interest.
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Free from paywall. People who shuttle between ideology, extreme violence and mental illness are exceptionally dangerous and we are exceptionally bad at controlling them. We need a different answer. My latest:
telegraph.co.uk/gift/27a082b42…
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@NotThatBigIan I think you mean my evidence to Parliament on the new mental health act. It’s online. My conclusion was its not fit for purpose. Our college president who pushed it is already giving lectures it will require more than 400 new psychiatrists just to cope with the bureaucracy
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@CoidJeremy1 That's a really interesting (and troubling) corrective. What's the review?
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@ClaireCNWL Found it Claire !
Someone you worked with at NHSE I think (?) saying we need “far, far fewer beds” in 2021.
National adviser ?
I’m rubbish at this but think I posted it from LinkedIn to X ok. You don’t have to watch the whole hour. Just the opening talk for a few minutes.
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I seriously don’t know what AI says about who advocated for bed closures. Maybe some did, But the vast majority of people I’ve ever worked with advocated stronger community services and enough beds.
Jeremy Coid@CoidJeremy1
@ClaireCNWL It may be I am wrong. I asked ChatGPT these questions. Perhaps it hallucinated that recent closures were a carefully planned exercise under a senior official involving named advisers and small number of academics supporting the process. Another source of info would be welcome.
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Do we really need fewer psychiatric beds ? linkedin.com/posts/jeremy-c…
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@NeilDotObrien @hundredfamilies Very good piece. And encouraging to be quoted
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I have a new piece on how & why the state is failing to protect us from dangerous mentally ill people - and why ideology is making the problem worse:
neilobrien.co.uk/p/violent-crim…
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@ClaireCNWL It may be I am wrong. I asked ChatGPT these questions. Perhaps it hallucinated that recent closures were a carefully planned exercise under a senior official involving named advisers and small number of academics supporting the process. Another source of info would be welcome.
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I’m not aware of who you are talking about. I didn’t know a single champion for bed closures. There was absolute clarity that each area had a responsibility to ensure there were sufficient beds.
Jeremy Coid@CoidJeremy1
@ClaireCNWL You can’t stop it if there are not enough NHS beds. Remind me who the key champions of bed closures were at the DoH and NHSE ?
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@ClaireCNWL You can’t stop it if there are not enough NHS beds.
Remind me who the key champions of bed closures were at the DoH and NHSE ?
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Out of area beds are an abomination in care, other than in a few very specific cases. We need to stop it!
Anti-Everything@Hartushare
@asifamhp @ClaireCNWL Thankfully, where I'm based has seriously got it's act together with OOA beds so I've not had to tell distraught family members that their loved one is being sent a 3/4 hour journey away for at least 18 months so it is doable with some motivation and willingness.
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@ClaireCNWL This does seem to be a desperate attempt to detract from the fact that closure of beds has been irresponsible and mental health services are unsafe and collapsing under the pressure. What exactly is it that patients are waiting for in A&E ? A bed by any chance ?
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Circa 10% of acute beds have people [2000] ready for discharge and inadequate community services so they are stuck in a bed which they no longer need, which may be counter therapeutic. Meanwhile, there’s pressure at the front door. Invest in proper services and workforce
Michael Brown 🌍@MentalHealthCop
@ClaireCNWL Not sure how it could become the default, beds have been cut so far there are whiteboards in bed manager offices with dozens and dozens of names for those in the community awaiting beds which don't exist.
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@MentalHealthCop @micmicmic1 @AmmarKazmi Rudakubana was a case discharged only days before the killings. The criticisms of mental health care have not been so high profile as in the Nottingham Inquiry
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@AmmarKazmi If only we had some other examples of where mentally unwell people had committed terrorist offences in order to understand things can be more than one thing at once?
And in any event: the police merely said it was being treated *initially* as a terrorist incident.
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The ‘antisemitic terrorism’ narrative around the Golders Green incident on Wednesday has now collapsed. The alleged assailant was mentally unwell with previous convictions for stabbing, dating back years, and he had left psychiatric care in recent days. One of his three victims (yes three, not two!) was a Muslim. While suffering an apparent mental health crisis, two Met officers kicked his head in IDF-style and then the Met justified it like a Netanyahu press conference.
We’re supposed to believe this man was an ‘antisemitic terrorist’ in the pay of Iran, motivated to attack Jews because of pro-Palestine protests and chants. This is a total sham and deeply insidious. The mainstream media, politicians, and the Metropolitan Police are colluding with Zionists to exploit this attack to further erode freedom of expression and assembly, and to expand Jewish militias in London.
Welcome to the complete Zionisation of British politics!
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@MentalHealthCop @micmicmic1 @AmmarKazmi There are but psychiatrists should not disclose confidential information. But all these elements are there in the case of Rudakubana. He had been assessed by PREVENT. There is little information to suggest he was adequately assessed on remand, although clearly mentally abnormal.
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@ClaireCNWL However, there were cases with similarity in the old “subnormality” hospitals that closed first. Severe behavioural problems and low IQ characterised these cases. They were often ill-treated by the ward attendants and there were no cures. They would now be in the private sector
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Indeed. Many people were admitted with a diagnosis of ‘Moral Deficiency’. Eg teenage pregnancy, petty theft, unruly conduct. And were still in hospital 60 years later, when I met them as a student nurse. Most did not have violent backgrounds.
Jeanette Beer@JeanetteBeer1
@ClaireCNWL @RoyLilley In truth not all of them had a mental illness. Were admitted for all sorts of spurious reasons
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@ClaireCNWL I remember those old stories. There was always a nurse who knew another nurse who had seen a case. But I found none in the two asylums I worked in. What I did find was patients on long stay wards who had had chronic schizophrenia. It’s an old asylum myth.
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@ClaireCNWL I fail to understand how beds that are so few after ruthless cutbacks can “warehouse” anyone.
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Imperative that acute inpatient care does not become the default for vulnerable people with mental illness or learning disability, because the social and community infrastructure structure isn’t there eg housing, care staff, activity, primary care. No Warehousing the vulnerable!
Free 🇵🇸 #RejoinEU@LikeOldTat
@silverhills64 @ClaireCNWL @nuwandiss Meanwhile we are told that Trusts are collapsing back into inpatient care only because they’re broke.
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@NotThatBigIan This statement has to be made even by academic psychiatrists otherwise trouble. But it needs a review. In the U.K. between 40-20 % with psychosis are violent in the first year before presenting to services. In the majority, this is due to symptoms not substances.
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Two things to add:
1. Most mentally ill people aren't dangerous and if they are, the danger is to themselves only and not others. This proposal covers a gaping hole in our defences against a 'spectacular few' determined to cause awful harm. 1/
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@ClaireCNWL That may have been true in the pre-chlorpromazine era. But neither of us worked there then. Schizophrenia is a severe brain illness. Two thirds do not recover until the 5th decade. There are cases even now in high security who are so dangerous they cannot come out of seclusion
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I trained in a Victorian asylum where people had been institutionalised for life simply because they had a mental illness. We need hospital beds and care for the sickest but when people are well enough to live at home with support in the community, they should be enabled to do it
hundredfamilies@hundredfamilies
A lack of supported housing is forcing mental health patients to remain in hospital despite being clinically ready for discharge, costing the NHS in England more than £100m a year, according to a report out today. housingtoday.co.uk/news/supported…
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@ClaireCNWL No one was ever “institutionalised for life simply because they had mental illness” during the time we were working in asylums. It was a little more complex than that. Many cases were kept because their conditions did not improve with treatment and there was no family support.
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@hundredfamilies Evidence of greatest importance, questioning underlying principles of current psychiatric practice and training.
It was unnecessary to consider patients’ “inclusion” or autonomy under the 1983 MHA but WILL be in future with the new Act.
“Inclusion” may be code for race.
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Doctor admits he made up idea that VC thought he would be killed or tortured when he attacked Policeman
#Nottinghaminquiry
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@ProfRobHoward It’s really interesting. All these spokespersons. Yet they never say the blindingly obvious. Exactly the same with the college of psychiatrists.
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Shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone. No mention here of the lack of beds, meaning that Community teams have no effective access to hospital admission in the support of their most vulnerable and unwell patients.
Recovery in the Bin@RITB_
“ Mental health patients in the UK are routinely coming to harm because of high caseloads, understaffing and overwhelming administrative work…” theguardian.com/society/2026/a…?
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@hundredfamilies Parallels with Clunis now become clearer (I wrote about it). He was passed from one service to another around London with no sustained responsibility or accountability. Psychiatrists were mainly in the frame. But there were so many, none could be singled out for sacking !
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@hundredfamilies My personal experienced is that some of the worst and most inappropriate decisions are taken when there is no clear leadership, leaders are absent or in meetings, staff are overwhelmed but expected to soldier on, and everyone is terrified of the patient but won’t admit it.
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It's not with the benefit of hindsight though is it? - All the information was known at the time
#NottinghamInquiry
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