Josh Dentrinos - That Prop firm guy.

@MTradingX There are others who trade nfp who do the same basically... some of them were on stage at an expo recently.

There is more chance of him dying from obesity than his account being real.

@jully_son To me there is something really odd about it.

@PropJoshD Business model I guess

Let’s assume all the data ftmo posted is correct, but also my assumptions across over 2 million data points is also correct. It would mean that FTMO on top of having the lowest average payout size on two phase balance based also has the highest density of losing traders of any prop firm ever. Even in the peak of prop no one had this kind of margin. (Can calculate this based on the 10,000+ traders paid datapoint). The industry has been around long enough and enough data has been circulating that these statistical data points hold true. They are also used as indicators for whether a firm is healthy or not. If average payout spikes you can assume you are being hit by a cheater group as an example and start a thorough audit. So yeh, I stand by my request for them to publish on propfirm match and if I am proven wrong I will gladly eat my hat, apologize and never say anything about them ever again.

@jully_son even if the number of payouts is less, why hide the specific number? There is no reason to do it.

@PropJoshD Yeah anyone can post numbers and for a big firm like FTMO who actually do those number, it'd be nice to prove everyone wrong with proven data

Thats basically what I am suggesting, there was no reason to post vague data like that. It just heightens suspicion. I wouldn't have dug into it if they just posted the payout number as a real number. But hey, all those years ago when I first posted MFF data, they did the same as well.

@PropJoshD Or maybe just share API access to Track payments made

@PropJournalist This just makes my argument even worse for them. Math continues not mathing. They shouldn’t have published vague numbers.

@PropJoshD They publish the average reward by account size on their website. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't seem unreasonable? Would suggest payouts mostly come from smaller accounts overall.

@MrDeedot Yes it is but it’s no their fault it’s the traders fault people don’t hold onto accounts long enough for a book to be a winning option

@PropJoshD Hi Josh, have you any insights in prop cash flows from a business perspective with this firm, is it all still majorly challenge fees?

@MelaninTrades Average biweekly payout is 2000-2200 on their Params. They also claim to have a payout of like 158k at the time. But instead of meeting the industry average it is less than.

@PropJoshD 3150$ per month on average seems not bad. Are traders really doing any better than that?

Not chiming in on anything but 1 thing. The numbers at the end. If you know what I know, and you can do some quick math. Either FTMO traders are amongst the lowest paid per split on the 2 phase set up, or something doesn't add up. Perhaps it would be better to just hook up to @PropFirmMatch and let them API in your payouts for clarity.

Enforcement is a choice, other than it looking bad it is what it is. Personally I find the clause very much unnecessary but with the number of cheaters these days going straight to social media a legal team might find it as necessary. All this being said, 2022 this was well known as well but a few influencer campaigns and it went away.

@PropJoshD Bone of contention was the clause of double standards,NDA should affect both positive & Negative

Good morning everyone, A few people have asked me about the part of the FTMO message that I avoided yesterday. I can only tell you a straight forward answer and its likely not the one that people want to hear and I tend to not enjoy bandwagons. FTMO has the right to include the clause in their agreement and traders have the right to refuse to agree to the agreement as frustrating as that may sound. If you break an agreement there will be consequences. What surprises me today, 19 March 2026, is that people think this part of the agreement is new. It was spoken about long ago and some how remains a surprise. All that being said, here is the process you should take if you have some sort of payout denial or dissatisfaction with any company including companies I may or may not run in the future: 1) Document everything including your trading, have your trading answers ready and review them to be true and reasonable (the reasonable part should be emphasized, I've seen some amazing leaps in emails before). 2) Refrain from posting anywhere, submit your information to the denying party 3) When you submit it, make a claim that they are breaching the agreement and highlight which parts of the agreement they are breaching 4) Behave courteously and polite when going through this process, never lose your temper or say things you will regret legally later 5) when all elements are exhausted and there is a stale mate where you believe the agreement has been breached and they believe the same, you can then post on social media. If you feel wronged running to social media is most definitely the silly thing to do, don't start with it - it should be the last step. That being said, people running to social media because of a claim has never really been effective in causing harm to a company, so the clause really isnt necessary especially if you understand the audience enough to communicate properly about it.

@fxEdisonn @virasana_ni Divide by two.my statement is per payout and the average payout industry wide on 2 phase bi weekly sits at 2kish 4400 across a month for same user base if we assume all data points

but isnt 3.1k a bit above industry avg? based on the small data i’ve seen from the likes of rise trackers like, i barely see any prop above 3k, i even remember @virasana_ni used to say that an avg payout of 2k per payout or below is healthy for a prop. Could you share a bit more about industry avg numbers?(for biweekly)

No more Russian Gas + buying LNG, yeah what a combo for the EU, good luck over Easter Folks, you are going to need it.

@DumbMoneyHunter “ICT does not work as well as random trading”. It is random trading though, that’s the problem. Because it requires discretion and two people can be trading ict and be trading against each other at the same moment it’s entirely random.

I own a propfirm. I see who makes money ICT traders are not a large number of them(despite being the most commonly traded method) Therefore.... ICT does not work as well as random trading

to add some clarity, for 10000+ it should probably be closer to 40m payouts. But considering FTMO attracts the better "talent", the payout should actually be higher than industry average not so much lower. It would have been easier for them to just put the real numbers and not a XXX+ YYYYY+

@PropJoshD What would be the industry's average? More than 3,150 per payout?

@smartbus9942 they pay biweekly mate.

@dsh_38 thanks

@PropJoshD Sounds like you're living a happy/peaceful life, happy for you mate!

Ok so..... i guess I have to give some insight into me on a personal level. I live in a place in Greece where my ancestors are from, Kefalonia (google image search, i live there). My life consists of work/trading stuff, exercise, swimming (summer and winter) and listening to the sounds of chickens and the occasional donkey from my balcony. Sometimes I will head onto the mainland but rarely or i will travel for business. I hardly ever visit Australia where I grew up because its far and I hate getting into planes. I don't live nor care for the high life and am somewhat of a traditionalist in a modern sense. I believe that there are certain things that you keep to yourself or inside your more intimate friend group, things like politics, religion and money. This used to be (at least where I am from) the norm, but with the advent of social media, everyone is vocalizing theirs, I do not and will not. If I make a post, it has nothing to do with those things with the exception of anything that is relevant to the market (geopolitical outcomes of oil for example). I don't really have an opinion beyond the functional equation of what X does to Y. If I like you, its because of you, if I dislike you, its because of you and not some group you are a part of, I think people who know me will attest to that. My life is so incredibly simple, I choose not to be involved in the above and my opinion doesn't matter anyway. My post regarding the 5ers mail campaign was purely that it was aggressive and poor taste, from a business owner/marketing manager perspective, whoever sent that email set seems to be out of ideas so went with the war topic and it sucks. I hold no other opinions, you guys can fight it out for the rest, I have chickens to listen to.

@apparentlytrder @MyForexFunds

@MyForexFunds when can i buy challenges i wanna get slipped to hell plsss

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@str0ngl4nd @the5erstrading miss me with the political stuff, I am not accusing them of anything but bad taste.

@PropJoshD @the5erstrading That's really bad taste. If it wasn't for the revenue they would probably have banned all the traders from islamic countries already.

hello @the5erstrading can you stop titling your emails with "WAR EDITION" its in bad taste. If I am having that impression I am certain others on your mailing list are as well.