Tim Tripp

68 people died of measles in New Zealand in the 1960s, around 4500 died in vehicle accidents. And there was still over 3000 accident deaths in the last 10 years. I don't see the sort of angst these convos generate when someone brings up speed limits But my point is... 👉most had measles and the culture was pretty casual about it... and that is not rewriting history👈

@TimTrippDesign @KalmiaLatifolia @thereal_truther @DawnsMission Almost every kid travelled in a car & hardly any of them died & most people did not support improving safety by making seat belt wearing compulsory. All those people were stupid by today's standards. That's the analogy. Your lack of understanding is not my problem.

People get the measles vaccine and shed the virus for up to 29 days literally causing measles! Joe Rogan nailed it: "Measles was what everyone got when I was a kid. You'd get sick for a few days, then immune for life." They're making it sound deadly.

I'm not sure that analogy is a particularly good fit. Car crashes are far less common than measles were, and significantly more people died from them, there's no 'natural immunity' to blunt force trauma. Measles was something almost every kid got and the majority recovered from in a week or two, so the casual cultural view then reflected that lived reality, not ignorance of risks. And discussing the Peltzman Effect dosen’t seem to trigger accusations of minimising car accident harm like similar nuance about measles does

@TimTrippDesign @KalmiaLatifolia @thereal_truther @DawnsMission And? Compulsory use of car seat belts was not generally welcomed either (13 attempts to get legislation passed in the UK). People don't always know what's good for them but I don't see anyone campaigning for seat belt removal now. When you know better, you do better.

The quote was an accurate description of what the public believed. That they were trying to change that perception proves it existed and it was widespread. Claims that in the the 60s and 70s the public view that everyone got it in childhood and most recovered fine, is not rewriting history

The Surgeon General's report did not agree with public perception. Measles was not considered a trivial childhood illness by the medical community. The U.S. Public Health Service (under which the Surgeon General’s office operated) considered this perception a problem because they were preparing to promote the new measles vaccines (licensed in 1963). Their task was to change the false but widespread belief that measles was harmless. When you hold up public perception as evidence that supports minimizing measles, that's illegitimate.

There is documented evidence from the Surgeon General’s own information specialists in the 1960s that measles was viewed as a routine childhood illness welcomed for lifetime immunity. A popular sitcom episode from 1969 also reflects that casual cultural framing at the time I’m looking for contrary evidence from the era e.g., contemporary articles, medical journals, or public health statements, showing that this perception was not widespread, and that those expressing it were accused of minimising measles

Nonsense. Parents were thankful when their children emerged from a bout of measles unscathed. They didn't 'welcome' measles when it killed them caused hospitalization. People also don't 'welcome' traffic accidents that could have been fatal but for a lucky break they are grateful they weren't seriously injured. When people have a choice of lifelong immunity after a needle prick vs a miserable illness with the potential to kill, which would they 'welcome'? I don't think they would 'welcome' the measles lottery. Before the vaccine, enduring measles was a necessary evil, but it wasn't 'welcomed'.

"For in the 1960s, measles was not uniformly regarded as serious in the United States. Measles was “often welcomed as a guarantee of lifetime immunity,” as the Surgeon General’s information specialists put it; people saw it as “trivial” and “basically a disease of childhood." Do you have evidence that those making such statements at the time (including public health officials) were accused of minimising measles? Because what I am doing is pointing out a difference in cultural perception between then and now, not denying risks or complications #bibr2-0033354919826558" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC64…

@TimTrippDesign @thereal_truther @DawnsMission Where do you see me quoting you saying "it was a common cold with a rash"? The issue was minimizing, and that's exactly what you were doing.

@KalmiaLatifolia @thereal_truther @DawnsMission I never said it was a common cold with a rash. What I said is I didn’t recall this level of fear around measles growing up in the 60s in NZ, when pretty much everyone was assumed to have had it. I’m not denying there are high risks for some

@TimTrippDesign @thereal_truther @DawnsMission It contradicts your asinine attempt to minimize the harms caused my measles as though it were like a common cold with a rash.

I've said before I can't speak for someone else's life experience. But what Joe said aligns with my recollection from growing up in NZ in the 60s/70s, which isn't demonstrably false. Pre-vaccine measles really was something most kids got, and the cultural view was casual for the majority who recovered fine after a week or two off school

@TimTrippDesign @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission I don't think vaccines were seen as "political" as much then, just a good idea to prevent illness. And I'm not concerned, rather amused at how far you'll go to defend demonstrably false memories and claims.

@MedRest1 @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission In the 60s/70s measles was widely seen as a routine childhood thing. There's plenty on 'safetyism' and declining risk tolerance showing society has become much more risk-averse since vaccines eliminated the everyday threat. It's the culture that changed, not the history.

@TimTrippDesign @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission It was also an age when children & teenagers would not usually have been party to such conversations. All this is what I mean by rewriting history. Rogan, etc, seem desperate to make their current beliefs fit the past.

@MedRest1 @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission I was a teen in the 70s, and I read the letters to the editor. Politics was often discussed at school (We had Muldoon and "A week of it"). I don't see why this is such a concern

@TimTrippDesign @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission Then your profile pic is either very flattering or you were an unusual child/teenager cos you don't look like someone who was an adult in the 1970's who might have read about an episode of the Brady Bunch who's first broadcast date in NZ we don't know.

@MedRest1 @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission Yes I was a frequent reader of the letters to the editor

@TimTrippDesign @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission I know when it aired in the US. But it 1st aired in the UK in 1975 & NZ TV at the time was generally a bit behind them, we only got 2 channels in 1975! & where would this backlash have been? In the Letters to the Editor of the local paper? Were you a frequent reader of them then?

@cipola6672 @fecak @thereal_truther @DawnsMission Measles was still common into the 70's. I didn't say it wasn't a big deal, but at the time it was not an existential crisis

@TimTrippDesign @fecak @thereal_truther @DawnsMission Joe Rogan was born in 67, so again the original poster was addressing what he said, not your experience from the early 60s And again, acting like contracting the measels was no big thing is an absolute farce born from a lack of knowledge of the damage it could cause

@MedRest1 @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission It aired in the US in 1969. I don't recall a backlash in the 70s either, nothing compared to recently

@TimTrippDesign @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission Given that episode didn't air in the UK until 1975 (no date available for NZ that Grok could find), I'm guessing it aired after that in NZ. So no, there wouldn't have been a backlash here in the 1960s cos we hadn't seen the episode yet.

I can’t speak for anyone else’s lived experience but his cultural perspective of the time is largely accurate, and it’s what I remember. I don’t recall the recent backlash against the Brady Bunch episode “Is there a Doctor in the House” occurring when I was a kid. Suggesting it is culture that has changed, not history being rewritten

@TimTrippDesign @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission Joe Rogan was born in 1967. He grew up with vax rates of 60-70%, reaching 95% by the time he turned 13. He's very unlikely to have the memories he's claiming. So yes, he is rewriting history, as are you if you think he grew up in the 1960s & remembers much from when he was 2 1/2.

@MedRest1 @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission The false claim was shedding the virus from the vaccine. Joe's lived experience is just that, his lived experience, and it's life as how I remember the 60s - I'm not the one rewriting history

@TimTrippDesign @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission You're replying in the context of a false claim by Rogan & in the OP, about the severity & lived experience of measles, & asking why people keep pointing that out? Like I dunno, maybe cos people keep trying to rewrite history?

@MedRest1 @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission Truther clarified his comment. I'm just replying to others commenting on mine.

@TimTrippDesign @SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission You seem to be ignoring the OP that started this convo 🤦‍♂️

@fecak @cipola6672 @thereal_truther @DawnsMission I said before 1969, that is not the 70's and 80's

@TimTrippDesign @cipola6672 @thereal_truther @DawnsMission And you simply posted your same wrong answer again. In the US in the 1970s and 1980s, "everybody" didn't get measles. That was chicken pox. You're wrong, and it's not even debatable - Google the data.

@KalmiaLatifolia @thereal_truther @DawnsMission I just said "Measles was what everyone got when I was a kid", (from people born that long ago) is not false. Does this paper contradict that concept?

@TimTrippDesign @thereal_truther @DawnsMission New Zealand 1938 375 measles deaths. 1893 511 measles deaths. From 1949-1969 there were 7 epidemics. Hundreds were hospitalized during each wave and "only" a few dozen deaths might occur each year. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8937390/

@SirMasksALot @thereal_truther @DawnsMission This is true, and something I assume most people know. I’m not sure why it needs to be the tagline every time someone mentions pre-vaccine measles in the 60s, especially when we're talking about the cultural context of growing up back then.

@TimTrippDesign @thereal_truther @DawnsMission It is not, but it does rather ignore the fact that after getting sick for a few days, some children died, or were left with vision and/or hearing loss, or suffered brain damage and were permanently changed.

@KalmiaLatifolia @thereal_truther @DawnsMission The measles vaccine wasn't available in NZ till 1969, vaccination is recommended to people born after this date, not before, as it is presumed everyone prior would have been exposed and have immunity

@TimTrippDesign @thereal_truther @DawnsMission 🐂💩 I recall growing up in the 1960s, **vaccinated** against measles. The vaccine was approved in 1963. My older brother wasn't vaccinated and was almost hospitalized because it was so severe. Don't confuse chicken pox with measles. PLEASE!

@fortunatereason @thereal_truther @DawnsMission I didn't say the vaccine spreads it, I said everyone used to get it, and it wasn't something that preoccupied conversations

@TimTrippDesign @thereal_truther @DawnsMission If everyone got it as a kid and the vaccine causes people to spread it, why don’t kids get it any more?