Andyface

commission

I would say no for P5 since they have a high level of fidelity, detail and dynamism. P3R’s while well-rendered are significantly less Soejima-esque even though it’s clear that’s the artstyle the sprites are aping, and in some cases have oddly-squashed proportions (Akihiko) + are mostly relatively static and less expressive than the OGs. My guess is that P3R was (and P4R is being) worked on by Atlus’s B Team while the main team including Soejima as AD are prioritising new entries.

@andyfaceo7 @fluffybiscuit03 @Saiaxs42 Can the issues/comparisons you bring up here apply to Reload’s or even P5’s sprites though? Do they have the same issues or is Revival the exception

Sorry guys, hate to say it, but Marie's new sprite is so much better than her old one

@Splatattackt @fluffybiscuit03 @Saiaxs42 x.com/andyfaceo7/sta… Went into detail here as well as in nested comments.

@andyfaceo7 @fluffybiscuit03 @Saiaxs42 By technical quality do you mean stuff like shading? Because I feel like the lack of shading in Revival portraits might be an intentional choice. Reload’s portraits had lots of shading, plus Narukami’s portrait in Revival is shaded. They’re capable of it, they just choose not to

@ZBZXV @SpiritRascal @fluffybiscuit03 @Saiaxs42 Actually I called him -either- underdeveloped -or- a tourist, and he's obviously not the latter since he played it (good on him). No idea what the fuck you're on though.

@andyfaceo7 @SpiritRascal @fluffybiscuit03 @Saiaxs42 "Mogged" you didn't win the argument, you called him a tourist yet he showed he actually played the game and beaten it. But what? 😭

@Hootootoot @LavenderGhast Outdated, lesser representation of Soejima's original vision, when it's drawn by him versus some pale imitation that's objectively inferior in every technical aspect? Crazy take by a crazy tourist. You just outed yourself as absolutely not worth engaging with.

It's crazy because you do just that as well, while also forcing hate on new art just because you have rose tinted glasses. Rose tinted glasses for outdated art that is an objectively lesser representation of the artistic intention. Which is why they have chosen to update it. But you don't care about the actual art, or the artist and their intentions, just your nostalgia. Well, that and the twitter outrage market.

@Hootootoot @LavenderGhast It certainly doesn't mean being half-blind and still trying to critique art.

@andyfaceo7 @LavenderGhast I didn't know pedantry meant infuriating run-on sentences

For someone who claims to be pedantic you seem to be missing all the finer details. Allow me to demonstrate pedantry; Not only does the old collar have lineart that doesn't connect all the way on the fold in order to imply thickness to the material, it also has shadows that factor both said thickness and contact with the shirt, both things completely missing on the new art. The new art is what is "sloppy" in missing both comprehension of object tangibility/dimensions and light projection if observed in direct comparison.

@andyfaceo7 @LavenderGhast In relation the collar it looks sloppy in comparison to the newer art.

I responded to the guy saying "objectively worse technically (true), but if you like it more power to you". OP then responded with "hurr durr subjective" and that's where I chimed in to confirm that it is indeed "objectively worse technically". Please check the thread history again.

@andyfaceo7 OP said they liked the new Marie more, someone else came in and said it was objectively bad, someone else came in and said it was just an opinion then YOU came in and said it was objectively bad from a “technical standpoint”. Let me know where I got that timeline wrong

@JosefuRichard @SpiritRascal @fluffybiscuit03 @Saiaxs42 Objectively better -from a technical standpoint-. What is up with folks reading half a sentence then making up the rest of the argument on their own D:

@andyfaceo7 @SpiritRascal @fluffybiscuit03 @Saiaxs42 Art is inherently subjective so claiming it looks objectively better is kind of stupid lol, that being said most probably prefer the older one

@SpiritRascal So you were arguing with a strawman that was made up instead of what I actually said 🙃

@Hootootoot @LavenderGhast So you can understand that collars almost never sit perfectly parallel and that the outward flare on the OG art is both intentional and perfectly in perspective?

@andyfaceo7 @LavenderGhast Nah I can see the collar from here tyvm

Once again, objectively better from a -technical perspective only-. I never even said which I -preferred subjectively-. It sounds like you're the one confusing objectivity and subjectivity here tbh. It's objectively better by measurable metrics, because that's what we're taught and made to understand when making art for a living. It absolutely does exist because these are metrics used when hiring for, and paying for art. It exists because it's what determines if you're good enough to work in the industry. It doesn't discount artstyle variance (not here at least since this is clearly aping Soejima) or that companies can still cut corners and half-ass things (which I'm not stating has happened either, but the new art is likely placeholder/WIP rather than final because of it being -objectively incomplete-), but I'm speaking from one very specific angle that you're still not addressing at all. When you say "you can't prove them wrong because it's their opinion" you're speaking of -subjectivity- not -objectivity-. When you speak of softer shapes being a representation of her character that's -subjectivity-. When we speak of industry standards, art school review, technical execution, and render quality that's -objective-. None of this still makes it -subjectively better- in any way, but it is -objectively better from a technical standpoint-.

@Hootootoot @LavenderGhast Would you like me to draw it out for you?

@andyfaceo7 @LavenderGhast The perspective is perfect? So we're just saying stuff now huh?

@penumbrapremier I think I've drawn that one before, she's somewhere down my media tab, but no this is the commissioner's OC!

@andyfaceo7 Bullet from Blazblue right?

@Hootootoot @LavenderGhast Old one has just has more attention to detail. If your brain can register the curated placement pf the tie that’s just very slightly off because it’s sandwiched by the bag strap, the perspective is perfect. The new one is just fucking flat and boring.

@LavenderGhast The old one has wonky perspective, new one is much easier on the brain.

Let's add on to this; There's also carefully curated tie placement on the OG just to show as much detail on Marie's outfit as possible, i.e. the button and glasses, within a small presentation area. On top of that the added wrinkles and folds put in so much more character and even show distinction between materials, like the thinner cotton shirt and thicker hat. There's even better comprehension of cast shadows like how the shade from Marie's chin falls over the padlock on the neck. All missing from the new sprite.

But just for your sake, yes the line weighting has actual variance on the OG piece, showing clear distinction between surfaces/objects, instead of uniform line thickness across the entire piece making everything blend together. There's also additional shadows for contrast and subtle rim lighting on the cap/bag strap/Marie's face that adds much more depth to the portrait versus how flat the new sprite looks. The OG also has fewer tangents and better understanding of line flow making it look more dynamic, example being the shirt collar and sleeves on the new one being at almost the same angle, giving off the impression of flatness. Color balance and overall mood is also better on the OG, leaning into the whole retro/sepia tone that P4 was notable for, harmonizing with the vivid yellow drop shadow on the left. Meanwhile the new sprite seems to have zero environmental lighting whatsoever, and looks like a fuzzy mess of blending. Speaking of blending, OG also has sharper, crisper lines for some reason, despite being almost 15 years older and rendered on lower resolution.

@SpiritRascal @fluffybiscuit03 @Saiaxs42 Did you even read my lovingly-written response going over in detail how the piece is objectively better before you replied here?

@andyfaceo7 @fluffybiscuit03 @Saiaxs42

@SpiritRascal @fluffybiscuit03 @Saiaxs42 Bro, objective from a technical standpoint i.e. TECHNICAL ART QUALITY. I literally worked on official stuff for P3R -_- x.com/Atlus_West/sta… Also, mogged

@andyfaceo7 @fluffybiscuit03 @Saiaxs42 that's really cool. you still don't know what the word objective means. and no lol