Johnny Yuma

@daveypgh @JoelMCurzon Is there a church this doesn’t apply to?

You choose to believe in a proven con man because you find it comforting to do so.

@Darb_Seyah777 @stackerco I’ve seen countless times LDS saying doctrine doesn’t change

@CopingSaw @stackerco True. The Gospel remains the same. God speaks to us in ways that we can understand

Why did the church leaders teach this was false and then reverse course? I should not be expected to pay attention.

@SenorVito9 Maybe I phrased my question poorly but what is the context I’m missing that changes anything?

@CopingSaw What context makes it worse?

*Deep breath* Here we go... I have a sincere question, and I’m asking it respectfully and in good faith. Critics of Joseph Smith frequently describe him as a “conman.” However, from the reading I’ve personally done — including both Church and non-Church historical sources — the historical record appears far more complex than that label often suggests. Yes, I am fully aware of the historical criticisms people repeatedly raise: polygamy, the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor, the Kirtland banking situation, treasure seeking, legal disputes, and countless other accusations that circulate online every day. None of those things have shaken my testimony even remotely. I do not believe Joseph Smith was a conman. I do not believe he was intentionally deceptive. I believe he was called of God. I believe he was a prophet. I believe he restored the Gospel of Jesus Christ through divine authority and revelation. And to be completely transparent, no amount of hostility, ridicule, internet criticism, podcasts, Reddit threads, or anti-LDS rhetoric is going to change that conviction. More importantly, my faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour is absolute, resolute, and immovable. I believe Jesus Christ was born, died for our sins, and rose again in accordance with the scriptures. I believe He lives. I believe He is the Son of God and the Saviour of mankind. Which is precisely why I do not understand the argument some people make that believing Joseph Smith was a prophet somehow conflicts with believing in Jesus Christ. To me, those beliefs are not contradictory at all. I believe Jesus Christ is my Saviour, and I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet called by Him. I genuinely believe Joseph Smith was telling the truth about what he experienced, and it is honestly bizarre to me how casually some people slander him without seriously engaging with the historical complexity surrounding his life. Ironically, there was once a time when I openly mocked Latter-day Saints myself. As a Catholic at the time, I absolutely would have joined in ridiculing “Mormons.” In fact, one of the ways I originally discovered the ex-Mormon community online was specifically because I went looking for material critical of the Church. And now here I am — a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, with no desire whatsoever to go back. So if God could reach someone like me and lead me to the restored Gospel, then yes, I absolutely believe He can reach others too. Which is why I’m asking this question sincerely: Where specifically does the “conman” narrative originate, and what evidence do critics believe most strongly supports the claim that Joseph Smith was knowingly deceptive? Because after everything I have personally studied so far, I do not currently find that accusation sufficiently supported by the historical evidence. I’m happy to have respectful historical discussion and good-faith conversation. But if the goal is simply mockery, hostility, or attempts to deconvert me, understand clearly: those arguments have already been seen, examined, and either easily dismissed, openly mocked by those who understand Church history far better than you do, or left to be judged in the hands of God. My faith is not fragile. I believe these accusations are false, and no amount of repetition changes that.

@strivetobekind I figured you knew that much lol

@CopingSaw Yeah

I for one REALLY hope this chamber is accessible during the open house!

@strivetobekind I saw someone post the other day part of it involved an apostle washing the persons feet

Also I know what happens during the second anointing too! Really interesting ritual.

@SenorVito9 What context makes it better?

@CopingSaw Only if I ignored immense amounts of context. Which you have. But thank you for trying.

@Darb_Seyah777 @stackerco This is another way of saying doctrine changes

@stackerco “At the time” The true and living Church grows in knowledge and truth.

@iFightForKids Me fighting off my younger brother while I call mom

I got brutally attacked by a pedophile

@chidote1 @SenorVito9 Frontiersman weren’t using seer stones to find wells though because it’s not possible and Joseph didn’t “have the ability” bc no one that paid him found anything lmao. I don’t think it’s presentism because the practice was illegal bc people knew it didn’t work

You are struggling with a logical fallacy known as “presentism” or looking at something out of context from 200 years ago and framing it through a modern lens. That what comparing apples and oranges looks like. Back tat that time, “folk magic” was much more common amongst Protestant believers. They actually believed that God operated through physical objects just like people did as contained within Biblical texts. Joseph of Egypt used a divining cup or a special cup filled with water that he gazed into to understand how to interpret dreams. Israelite priests used “urim and thummim” stones to receive revelation. Protestant frontiersman used seer stones and divining rods to find wells. Joseph Smith was known to have this ability hence why people and neighbors hired him to help them to find lost things and it was in no way as weird back then as it is now. There is a reason people back then believed his story and viewed him as a Prophet- so making the claim that he was “obviously” a false prophet due to his method of using seerstones simply falls flat

@chidote1 @SenorVito9 Was Joseph seen as a prophet when he was treasure digging? You are comparing apples and oranges

@CopingSaw @SenorVito9 If I told your family and friends I had a magic staff and I could hit a rock in a desert and water would start flowing out of it, would that be ok with you?

@florebella_ You would too if you played for Edmonton

he always looks like he’s just finished crying

@Eddie1968K @RigdonNancy3 @grok Your questions are about societies as a whole or Y/N did they practice polygamy but your original post says “polygamy is the normal marriage form of mankind - monogamy is new and the exception” this is objectively wrong.

@CopingSaw @RigdonNancy3 @grok And I provided objective facts - that's what is true historically. It's not my fault you refuse to accept the truth.

This is a very good point and makes me wonder. To all of you that knew about Joseph Smith polygamy from seminary and wherever else you said you learned it, why were you not disturbed by it? Or how did you react when you found out?

@Eddie1968K @RigdonNancy3 @grok I don’t care what non-Christian and non-western societies did. Can you answer these questions without outsourcing it to AI? Was polygamy the normal form of marriage? Is monogamy new? Is monogamy the exception in marriage? These are the claims you made in your original post.

Dude - see Grok's answer to my questions - they are below. For you to not know these things says a lot about you. Why don't you ask Grok directly? @grok did I or did I not address his points by having you answer my questions? 1. Was polygamous marriages acceptable in most human societies throughout history? YES 2. Was polygamy prohibited in most human societies in history? NO 3. Did the ancient Israelites and Jews practice polygamy? Is is biblical? Yes; biblical (e.g., Abraham, David, Solomon). 4. What percentage of human societies and cultures in the past practiced polygamy? ~83% of societies in the Ethnographic Atlas allowed polygyny. 5. Was polygamy legal in Japan, Korea, China, Thailand, India, and other non-Western nations in the past? When did they make it illegal and why? Yes, practiced/allowed historically; banned in 20th century (China 1950, India 1955, Thailand 1935, Japan/Korea via modernization). 6. When did monogamy become the norm and why? Norm in West via Roman/Christian law; global shift 19th-20th cent. with laws. 7. When assessing all humans who ever lived, what percentage would've lived in societies and cultures that allowed polygamy? Vast majority (most of history in polygyny-allowing societies). 8. Does the Bible prohibit polygamy anywhere? No explicit prohibition. 9. Does the Bible say God gave King David his wives? Does this sound like God sanctioned polygamy? Yes (2 Sam 12:8); implies sanction.

@Eddie1968K @RigdonNancy3 @grok Notice how you didn’t actually address any of my points? This is why people see you all as dishonest. -Polygamy was definitely not the normal form of marriage -Monogamy is not new -Monogamy is the exception

@grok please answer all of the following questions: 1. Was polygamous marriages acceptable in most human societies throughout history? 2. Was polygamy prohibited in most human societies in history? 3. Did the ancient Israelites and Jews practice polygamy? Is is biblical? 4. What percentage of human societies and cultures in the past practiced polygamy? 5. Was polygamy legal in Japan, Korea, China, Thailand, India, and other non-Western nations in the past? When did they make it illegal and why? 6. When did monogamy become the norm and why? 7. When assessing all humans who ever lived, what percentage would've lived in societies and cultures that allowed polygamy? 8. Does the Bible prohibit polygamy anywhere? 9. Does the Bible say God gave King David his wives? Does this sound like God sanctioned polygamy?

@Eddie1968K @RigdonNancy3 It’s amazing how everything you said about polygamy was wrong. Polygamy was definitely not the normal form of marriage and monogamy is not new or the exception. Any lie you have to tell yourself to help works I guess

I knew of it before I joined the Church in 1985 and never had a problem with it because I studied history and knew polygamy is the normal marriage form of mankind - monogamy is new and the exception. And adult men marrying 14-year-olds was accepted practice everywhere in the world - every culture, every society, every nation did it. IIRC, China even had laws making it illegal for girls NOT to be married by 14 or 15. The first time this became illegal anywhere was late in the 19th century, long after Joseph Smith died. BTW, since we finished the First Vision accounts and now know the differences don’t validate what the critics claim, do you want to continue our dialogue and give me what you believe is the next proof that the Church is false? I’m more than willing to explore each for I am not afraid of the truth.

@nicoraytruth @NoDisassemble5 You see more hatred for Mormons than Islam or Hindus? Please come back to reality

I see more hatred for Mormons than Scientologists on X. More hatred for Mormons than Hindus. More hatred for Mormons than even Islam (the one faith where some followers are blowing people up and lopping off heads). I can’t take you people seriously. You say outlandish claims, but I never see folks attacking the actual substance and meaning the church conveys. You spend countless hours attacking the Book of Mormon, character attacks on Joseph Smith, but no time on is the church producing good human beings that are filled with joy and help share that joy with others. Bizarre. I think a solid 70% of the anti Mormon crowd is miserable.

the amount of hatred on mormons makes me want to have 7 kids and raise them all LDS. Let's build an army folks. Strength in numbers

@CatholicRob The two families I know from Utah both say they were essentially shunned in their neighborhoods when people learned they had no interest in becoming LDS

And yet Mormons will tell you that they’re known for being good, upstanding, honest people whereas it’s really the exact opposite

@Rultpwr @XCkyro @GarveBrahman Wasn’t one of your apostles brother excommunicated for child sexual abuse, rebaptized and then given leadership roles again? Rumor has it that Todd was aware and never reported! No bueno!

@XCkyro @GarveBrahman maybe instead of excommunicating the homosexual pedos, we should make them saints and let you guys pray to them!

All the time. Mormons are not Christians.

@jkdavis89 Read the second paragraph you goober the first part is about debates

@CopingSaw Yeah, because he's not getting his way.

And thus ends another chapter of someone who thinks they can easily dunk on Mormons, realize that they have no idea what they are talking about and promptly runs away.