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Insert Name Here
43.9K posts
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@johnwcbragg
Did some things. and some stuff.
Wherever you go, there you are شامل ہوئے Ekim 2011
327 فالونگ160 فالوورز
@LeftistTexanist @Madhaterproject @dsawyer Yes, pot meet kettle.
The EC's current fans are fans because it elected Trump.
but if you do the least bit of investigation, the arguments in favor of something like the EC is that it would stop somebody like Trump who had zero support in 2015 from the elites
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@Madhaterproject @johnwcbragg @dsawyer Pot, meet kettle.
The biggest proponents of NOT abolishing the EC are entirely outcome-based.
"Ohh the small farmers!"
You guys will let every small farmer in CA & NY suck big donkey balls so that you can keep your built-in advantage.
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Dude says: "There is no good civics argument [for this] anti-democratic device."
Me: **looks at the history of democracies** I think you just made the case there, dude. The reason we have Republics with limited democracy is that there is no semantic gap between "true democracy" and "mob rule."
James Surowiecki@JamesSurowiecki
There's no good civic argument for the electoral college. It was arguably necessary to ensure the ratification of the Constitution, but it's an anti-democratic device that gives some American citizens far more voting power than others, based purely on where they live.
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@johnwcbragg @dsawyer No it doesn't. That's what the constitution is for.
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@CarloFerlauto @MichaelFKane funny how the electoral college doesn't do any of the things that it was supposed to do in the federal papers
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What’s humorous is that the people so against the Electoral College never read the debate for and against in The Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers…
Which goes to show you exactly why we need to have an Electoral College.
They say that ignorance is bliss, but having strong opinions about something they’ve never even researched simply goes to show you how many happy people there are.
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There are no good arguments for the electoral college when you ignore all the good ones.
Funny how that works.
James Surowiecki@JamesSurowiecki
There's no good civic argument for the electoral college. It was arguably necessary to ensure the ratification of the Constitution, but it's an anti-democratic device that gives some American citizens far more voting power than others, based purely on where they live.
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@SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki just re-read it
a lot of Fed 68 applies to the pre 1968 convention system for choosing nominees.
but none of it applied to the EC, ever.
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@SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki yeah the electoral college as it existence doesn't do any of the things that it was supposed to do in fabulous 68
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There's no good civic argument for the electoral college. It was arguably necessary to ensure the ratification of the Constitution, but it's an anti-democratic device that gives some American citizens far more voting power than others, based purely on where they live.
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@sensiblemoderat @HedgeDirty yeah we have a reasonably good data set from statewide elections.
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@johnwcbragg @HedgeDirty There are orders of magnitude more gettable moderates than Hizbollah-pilled leftists
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The electoral college is the second most moderating structural feature in American politics (the most moderating being corporate lobbying). The presifent is picked by the middle 10% of the middle ~8 states. It makes the median voter theorem more rather than less true
James Surowiecki@JamesSurowiecki
There's no good civic argument for the electoral college. It was arguably necessary to ensure the ratification of the Constitution, but it's an anti-democratic device that gives some American citizens far more voting power than others, based purely on where they live.
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@markstwatter2 @grok @razibkhan @L0m3z which would be more meritorious if he were an actual doctor and not just a well meaning amateur lol
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@johnwcbragg @grok @razibkhan @L0m3z LoliRapist88 actually does charity plastic surgery work for acid attack and burn victims.
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@ArfTard @SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki yeah I mean we have statewide governor and senate elections all the time, we have a decent number of countries that elect their president by national popular vote.
there is a civics poli sci argument for indirect election, burkean representation,
but the EC doesn't do that!!!
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@SaveTheLibs @johnwcbragg @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki FYI this fear you have about how elections would occur without the EC is not borne out in any data, runs counter to how elections actually play out, and is nothing more than speculative fantasy carried over from the most basic argument in favor you learned in elementary school
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@SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki State changing over time is well beside the point.
The point is that there is no theory of government of political science that would lead you to create the electoral college system that we have
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First of all, the states and parties evolve. California used to be solid R, and Texas used to be solid D. Flip through some electoral maps, and consider this country is a quarter millennium old.
Florida was a swing state until like five minutes ago.
Nobody is ignoring those states… it’s just a forgone conclusion at the moment.
Proportional elector allocation is a more relevant issue to your concerns. EC is not the problem.
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@SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki "the most diverse and complex states which better represent the country as a whole."
Ignoring California and Texas and NEw York and Florida is representing the country as a whole?
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It seems like you're just reaching for arguments to justify it because it exists.
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@SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki "It checks the tyranny of the majority"
no it doesn't?
"(as well as potential disasters like an assassination or something)" wut??
"It prevents campaigns from just fighting over densely populated areas"
No it just prioritizes the metro areas in swing states
(1/2)
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@kb_french Is the Electoral College state-by-state system "a deliberately rebalanced filter", or is it a rube goldberg good-enough kludge.
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@kb_french Giving extra votes to doctors / executives / homeowners / college grads would be under the theory that they're smarter than average.
Representative democracy is under the Burkean theory that the representative adds wisdom.
EC is "republican", but why is it WISE?
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It occurs to me that some people really don’t understand the definition of a republic, and so they think “democracy is broken!” Every time they a distinctive feature where a republican form of government differs from pure democracy.
A republic is where votes are filtered through various rebalancing institutions. The obvious one is states. But we could give a special voting privilege to medical doctors, or the boards of the S&P 500. Any kind of deliberately rebalanced filter on democracy makes it a republic.
Insert Name Here@johnwcbragg
@kb_french @dsawyer no no what is the political science theory that says we should have a mostly popular vote based election -- but if it's close it will come down to the swing voters in a handful of closely divided states?
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@sensiblemoderat @HedgeDirty Maybe not a whole new world--we could look at what actually happens in statewide elections in swing states. (Election by pure popular vote without geographic filtering)
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@sensiblemoderat @HedgeDirty Maybe, or maybe it would make base-mobilization more attractive. Right now, there's no real point to the Dems pandering to the pro-Gaza crowd (except maybe Michigan?). They'll vote Dem or stay home, in deep blue states, who cares?
In an NPV, *every* vote matters. New world.
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@davidcaryhart @GBBranstetter I don't think MAGA is good
(Opened my drafts and I don't know the context but I stand by what I was about to say)
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@GBBranstetter Raping children is a different category of offense.
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@kb_french @dsawyer what is the argument for a state-by-state popular election that focuses the efforts of the campaigns on the half dozen most closely divided states? where is the school of political science thought that says that's a good idea?
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@kb_french @dsawyer Yes I understand that.
The system designed in 1787, outside a two-party context, could make sense. The parties could pick their nominees with an electoral college type system.
"electors" vote for two, if nobody has a majority, then another body chooses between the top 2 or 3
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@SaveTheLibs @FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki and how does the electoral college check and balance anything?
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@FurlinMark @JamesSurowiecki You’re correct about the second part. And that’s the point. Popular vote is dumb and corrupting. We need checks and balances.
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