Guus Kroonen

@azforeman @AlCabbage045 'Archaic' is a rather vague label, at least in terms of phylogeny (even worse than 'old' for anything PIE!). The Sl and It compounds do not appear recent to me either, but to substantiate a formation *gʰosti-pot-s for core IE, an unambigous Indo-Iranian cognate would help a lot!

The word could well be but that compound does have a rather archaic feel to it. Use of *potis that way was productive at a much earlier stage (cf. *wikpotis) though you could argue that there’s no way of knowing how long that remained the case in these branches before sound-changes made the compound non-transparent. But it is enough to make me think the word is old enough to have participated in some pretty archaic derivational morphology.

@Mate_Kapovic Do you think this is a shared tradition?

@KroonenGuus A potentially important fact is that both in Germanic and Slavic it's used in the 2nd part of compound names (e.g. HlewagastiR, Radogostь). Doesn't prove anything necessarily, of course, but still...

@AlCabbage045 Not necessarily, if you model the diversification with the help of the wave model. The word might be merely regional Northwest Indo-European (≈ dialectal "Corded Warese").

@KroonenGuus Unless the Slavic word is a loan, wouldn’t it at least be reconstructible to (for lack of a better term) “Proto-Corded Ware IE” (Balto-Slavic, Indo-Iranian, Germanic, Italic, and Celtic)?

@seeltersk Dank! Ja, dit past zo te zien bij Oudfries wēden 'blauw' < *waizdīna-.

@KroonenGuus In het Mooringer Noordfries heeft dit "weden" zich trouwens tot "ween" ontwikkeld, het ongemarkeerde woord voor de kleur blauw.

@seeltersk Twee losse vraagjes: is er een Saterfriese verwant bekend van Duits Waid 'Isatis tinctoria'? En van Nederlands smient 'Anas penelope'?

@seeltersk Jammer, maar veel dank voor het navragen!

@KroonenGuus Die zijn er vast geweest, maar daar is niets van overgeleverd. Ik heb hier een paar sprekers gevraagd, maar niemand weet het.

@Tom_Rowsell The evidence supports a partial CW distribution at best, not encompassing the speech community ancestral to the Indo-Iranian branch. By this time, GAC ancestry had of course already been absorbed, meaning that direct attribution of this concept to (late) IE is risky / dubious.

@KroonenGuus Interesting. But since Latin (bell beakers) broke away from Corded ware before the indo-iranic branch did, the word must date to the early Corded Ware culture which surely spoke late PIE?

@GarnerJosh1667 @AndersRJorg @ChronHib @JLingPystynen An interesting proposal! I hope it'll be feasible to collect a sufficient amount of evidence (I know you're on it). And to create consensus on what 'sufficient' would mean here. Including a ref to the Italian substraticists will strengthen your paper: studietruschi.org/g-alessio-vest…

Working on a first draft… Would appreciate any criticism/refutation of the basic hypothesis… @AndersRJorg @KroonenGuus @ChronHib @JLingPystynen

@ait_kisou @neilalexanderw1 Found it!

@KroonenGuus @neilalexanderw1 And this is basically what happened in NL in 1800

I have always hated the metric system. After 7 years of living in a nation that uses it, my feelings have not changes. I'll say this: kilograms, kilometers, liters, and decimeters are reasonable units of measure. Their names are dumb, however, &, sadly, no one uses decimeters :(

Volgens de huidige trends lijkt Trouw de meest waarschijnlijk winnaar in de lange strijd der dagbladen.

@AndersRJorg @GarnerJosh1667 What about *tneh₂p- for Celtic, i.e. *tnāϕ-?

@GarnerJosh1667 That would be the implication, if the connection is correct. Simplification of initial *tn- seems unremarkable. But the entire connection is of course extremely uncertain.

Basque ~ Pre-Greek comparanda 1. Basque naba ‘valley’ ~ Pre-Greek νάπη, νάπος ‘woodland vale, glen, dell’ 2. Basque arto ‘millet’ ~ Pre- Greek ᾰ̓́ρτος ‘a cake or loaf of wheat bread’ 3. Basque apar, afar ‘foam’ ~ Pre-Greek ἀφρός ‘foam’ 1/x

@GarnerJosh1667 #1 shows a good formal and semantic match, but can we exclude that B naba is a borrowing from Romance *nave- < Latin navis 'ship' in the documented (OPr.) meaning 'trough'? The shift "trough" > "furrow, valley" is very common. #2 is mysterious, but I suspect a chance resemblance.

What do you make of these @KroonenGuus? :)

@GarnerJosh1667 The connection to Etruscan śpel looks tempting, but is the meaning secured? Basque -gune means 'place', cf. estal-gune 'place of cover' (you can find more here: academia.edu/2154989/Etymol…). So ospel-gune might mean 'place of shelter'.

Pre-Greek comparanda — To expand upon Cid’s Basque & Pre-Sardinian comparisons: Srd *golósti (holly) ~ Bsq gorosti (id) ~ Pre-Gr κήλᾰστρος (id) Srd *mòkor (hillock) ~ Bsq mokoru (summit) ~ Pre-Gr μύκων (heap) Srd *mora (pile of rocks) ~ Bsq mora (id) ~ Pre-Gr μάρμᾰρος marble

@GarnerJosh1667 I would leave out Gr. μύκων 'heap', cf. PGm. *mūhan- 'heap' < *muHk-on- and Alb. mys m. 'hump; hillock' < *muHk-io-. Πίνδος is a mountain, but does it exist as a word? More generally, I distrust most Greek links. Even κήλαστρος looks recent for its suffix -αστρος for wild plants.

Srd *péntum- ‘precipice, cliff, ravine’ ~ Basque pendoitz ‘hill, hillock; cliff, escarpment; precipice, slope’ ~ Pre-Greek Píndos ‘mount’

@MartinTerDenge De standaardmethode bestaat uit de identificatie van parallellen, d.w.z. woorden die in het Proto-Germaans dezelfde klankcombinatie hadden, en dan kijken of de dochtertalen ook dezelfde uitkomsten hebben. Ik krijg hierbij hulp van mijn woordenboek. archive.org/details/etymol…

@KroonenGuus Nu heb ik leyrd dat språken neet altyd rechtlynig alle regelen volget... 😉 Mär van protogermaansk en wo as dat afleided wördt med alle klangwetten, weat ik heylemål niks. Wår kan ik meyr vinden?

Gat in alle twentske wöördeböker, en woord wat in myne family vake bruked wördet: gliw. Ymand en idee?

@Talenvolger @MartinTerDenge Mooi!

@MartinTerDenge Hebbes! gluw , gliew , ongrijpbaar en onbetrouwbaar iemand. Bron: Dialectwârkgroep Heerde/Waopmvelde (2004), Nieje Heerder Woordnboek, Heerde & gluw , gluw , zelfstandig naamwoord , de; in bijv. kieken as een gluw als een duivel (Stellingwarv)

@MartinTerDenge Dank je, dan zoek ik nog even door. Ik vrees dat afleiding van Proto-Germaans *glīwa- niet mogelijk is, want de w zou dan verdwenen moeten zijn, vgl. Westfaals Blī n. 'lood' < *blīwa-.

@KroonenGuus In et twentsk is et 'ne glyv(e)' ja, vrouwelik woord. Mär dit is unsydig. Likt hyrmed verwant: en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstru…

@MartinTerDenge Ik vraag even door. Dus qua vorm verschillend van dit?

@KroonenGuus Nope, dat woord hebbet wy OUK.