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@sid_nirvana_fi

Guru for @nirvana_fi

mettaverse ๊ฐ€์ž…์ผ Aralฤฑk 2024
363 ํŒ”๋กœ์ž‰3.2K ํŒ”๋กœ์›Œ
Wes Bos
Wes Bos@wesbosยท
what would a "better github" even look like?
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
A process can be "mostly" decentralized just as meaningfully as data can be "mostly" encrypted.
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
@beaniemaxi โ€œDeFiโ€ is a misnomer almost all the time.
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Beanie
Beanie@beaniemaxiยท
DeFi is a scam. Depositors have lost literally billions of dollars this year chasing 4% APY. They were told there's no risk by founders and VCs. These are the only winners other than the hackers. No reprecussions for negligence and outright lying. Crypto isn't a serious industry.
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
crypto's floor-price arc loading
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ๅ‹พ็ป“่Š‚็‚น
ๅ‹พ็ป“่Š‚็‚น@colludingnodeยท
Am I taking crazy pills? Why is the pro-multisig side calling the anti-mutlisig side "theorists", "purists", and "idealists", when they are living in a fantasy world where liability and compliance burden don't exist?
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
"Decentralization" is tough to clarify because the word is apophatic. It means something positive, but uses the negative label: "not centralized". Far too broad. "Centralization" comes in degrees - so one thinks its opposite still "counts" even when not 100% pure. Nope.
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
โ€œDecentralizationโ€ is a big word for a simple idea: youโ€™re free to participate or leave, it doesnโ€™t really matter. I like that idea. Itโ€™s genuinely worth trying to make work. Not much in crypto today meets that standard. Maybe a renaissance is coming.
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
@josephdelong I bet the larp is for the sake of dodging blame when things go sideways. Itโ€™s pretty much the worst of a possible outcomes to skimp on security & accountability at the same time.
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joseph.eth
joseph.eth@josephdelongยท
All onchain lending is custodial. Why are we larping decentralization when it comes to the security?
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
@divine_economy It's called a "board meeting," friend. Twelve people in a room taking a vote doesn't need a fancier word than that.
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david phelps
david phelps@divine_economyยท
can't believe this needs to be said but you can and should be in favor of decentralization *and* of arbitrum moving funds decentralization is a process with an infinite horizon, and a 9/12 multisig is 9x more decentralized than a 1/1 this is still battling centralization
Steven Goldfeder@sgoldfed

Surely one of the most complex decisions ever made in Arbitrum governance history but a few things worth noting: 1. To all those screaming for the past few days โ€œArbitrum has a centralized sequencer so they can move fundsโ€, take a few minutes to learn how Arbitrum works. The sequencer has absolutely no power to move funds and was not the one who acted here. 2. The decision to act was made entirely by the Arbitrum Security Council, a group of 12 individuals elected by the Arbitrum DAO (the annual election is currently underway โ€” vote now!), which required 9/12 of them to agree. The council is independent from the Arbitrum Foundation and Offchain Labs (1/12 of the elected members is an OCL engineer), and came to this decision by themselves after much deliberation. You may not like the existence of security councils and you can form your own opinion on whether you agree with their actions, but this process was extremely distributed and coordinated by independent actors, and ina world where security councils exist, Arbitrumโ€™s is a masterclass on how a truly independent security council should operate. 3. For many, the ultimate goal is to get rid of the security council entirely, but this is complicated. Technically itโ€™s easy โ€” the security council is elected by the DAO and operates at its pleasure, and the DAO can turn it off at any time. But the harder question is _should_ the DAO do that? L1s have the ability to hard fork. Security councils control the analogous power for the L2. If you get rid of it, you lose the ability to hard fork. You can still update the chain via DAO vote but thatโ€™s a slow process and you can no longer do fast emergency actions (which includes both actions like the security council took today as well as the ability to quickly upgrade the code in case an exploitable vulnerability in the software stack is discovered). As Iโ€™ve said many times, the best path that I see to getting rid of security councils is for the L1 itself to take on this burden for its most important L2s (as defined by objective criteria). In that case, in the case of a vulnerability or an exploit the conversation for L1 and L2 will be identical โ€” does this warrant an L1 hard fork. Iโ€™m hopeful that we can reopen this conversation in the coming weeks.

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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
Ethereum apologists out there redefining words faster than the blockchain finalizes transactions.
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Jarrad
Jarrad@Jarrad_solยท
More volume than $Belief Higher Mcap than $Asteroid However no one can see it because @dexscreener after 4 weeks has not responded to our request. Follow the correct protocol, fill in the form, no response. Ask their discord support team. "Oh sorry this isn't the team that handles this" Guess we will just keep asking for @risedotrich to be integrated ๐Ÿ˜‚
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
@AvgJoesCrypto A system is "decentralized" if it mitigates collusion. To see a committee as "decentralized" is an illusion.
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AJC
AJC@AvgJoesCryptoยท
The gaslighting today is off the charts. No, a 9/12 multisig unilaterally changing which address is holding funds is NOT โ€œDeFi,โ€ nor is it even โ€œdecentralized.โ€ That doesnโ€™t mean it wasnโ€™t the right choice, but in a truly decentralized system, there wouldnโ€™t even have been a choice. Collectively, as an industry, we need to grow up and start being honest with ourselves. The vast majority of protocols and apps in this space are, in fact, centralized. Iโ€™m not saying this is a good or bad thing, but letโ€™s at least call a spade a spade.
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
@TrustlessState calling a committee meeting "decentralization" is an abuse of language for the sake of ideology that would make even Ibram X. Kendi blink.
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
oh @arbitrum , your gallantry is making crypto blush.
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
@martypartymusic Iโ€™m sorry: โ€œDeFiโ€ should be 100% permissionless and also require approvals to withdraw? I think something has to give here.
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MartyParty
MartyParty@martypartymusicยท
Rant time. Been telling you for years Ethereum Layer 2s, EVM bridges, multisig backed treasuries, reentrancy, all the biggest risk to crypto. Hate to say it but perhaps these 2 robberies will wake this industry up. AI is good at finding the single point of failure. These legacy architectures on the "human security council" and EVM bridging sides have always been the single point of failure. Note: This goes for app projects on EVERY network. I urge all projects that custody user funds to run frontier models on their architecture and codebases and front run the bad guys. Start today. None of these robberies are strange to me. We have known these were vulnerabilities for years. Sad for the victims but optimistic the engineers will wake up and address these technical points of failure. There are newer technologies, built to solve these permissioned problems. Switch to them now. And for the love of lasagna put curcuit breakers on your withdraw side!!!! Any large withdraw needs several approvals. Thats customer money!!! If there is a multisig treasury or a security council it is NOT DEFI!! So why are you stubbornly not curcuit breaking??? You are not defi. Defi is 100% permissionless. Ive been telling you this for years. These are all psuedo decentralized finance protocols masquerading as defi to gain user trust, but they are permissioned. Permissioned systems will always have a single point of failure. And finally, any exploit in our industry effects the WHOLE industry. Stop the tribalism. Get together and fix the stack together. The technology has evolved. Upgrade! Rant over.
Charles Guillemet@P3b7_

Two days ago, Kelp DAO suffered a $292 million exploit, the largest DeFi hack of 2026. The attack is elegant in its simplicity, terrifying in its implications, and a case study in how a single misconfiguration can cascade through the entire DeFi stack. โ–ถ The Setup Kelp is a liquid restaking protocol. It creates rsETH -- a liquid token representing ETH restaked on EigenLayer. DeFi being DeFi, users want these tokens available across multiple chains. So Kelp uses LayerZero, a cross-chain messaging protocol, to bridge rsETH between networks. The core idea behind any cross-chain bridge is straightforward: - A user locks (or burns) tokens on Chain A - An oracle observes and verifies that transaction - The bridge mints an equivalent amount of tokens on Chain B LayerZero's oracle mechanism is its Decentralized Verifier Network (DVN), a set of independent verifiers that must agree a cross-chain message is legitimate before it is executed. The critical word here is "independent." And that's where things went wrong. โ–ถ The Vulnerability For reasons that remain unclear, Kelp had configured a 1-of-1 DVN setup. One verifier. No redundancy. No independent confirmation. LayerZero had explicitly warned against this configuration. Kelp ignored the warning. A single point of failure in a system securing hundreds of millions of dollars. โ–ถ The Attack The attackers, preliminarily attributed to North Korea's Lazarus Group, didn't need to break any smart contract. They went after the infrastructure layer. To verify blockchain state, a DVN relies on RPC nodes, the servers that synchronize and serve blockchain data. The attackers compromised two RPC nodes used by Kelp's lone DVN, then launched a DDoS attack against the remaining healthy nodes, forcing failover to the poisoned ones. From there, it was trivial. The compromised RPC nodes presented a fabricated blockchain state to the DVN, pretending that 116,500 rsETH (~18% of total circulating supply) had been legitimately deposited on the source chain. The DVN, seeing no contradicting signal from any other verifier, approved the message. The attacker retrieved 116,500 rsETH freshly minted on the destination chain. โ–ถ The Liquidation The attacker deposited the stolen rsETH as collateral on Aave V3 and Compound V3, then borrowed approximately $236 million in (W)ETH against it. By the time lending protocols reacted, freezing rsETH markets, halting new deposits, restricting withdrawals, the damage was done. Aave now carries an estimated $177-196 million in bad debt. Its TVL plunged from ~$26.4 billion to ~$17.7 billion as panic withdrawals exceeded $5.4 billion. Whether Aave's safety module can fully absorb the loss remains an open question. Not the decentralized and trustless ideal we went for... The Deeper Problem Poisoning a handful of RPC nodes and DDoS'ing a few others was enough to fabricate $292 million out of thin air and erodes trust across the entire DeFi ecosystem. No smart contract exploit. No zero-day. Just a misconfigured verifier and an infrastructure-level attack on the nodes it relied on. But the root cause runs deeper than Kelp's configuration. The fundamental problem is the trust model. Kelp's bridge, like most bridges and many Layer 2 rollups, relies on oracles reading blockchain state from RPC nodes and attesting that "this thing happened." The security of the entire system reduces to one question: can you trust the nodes feeding data to your verifier? The Kelp hack proves the answer is no. Not the decentralized and trustless ideal we went for... There is a fundamentally different approach: validity proofs. Instead of trusting oracles to honestly report what happened on another chain, you require a cryptographic proof, a zero-knowledge proof, that the state transition actually occurred according to the protocol's rules. The verifier on the destination chain doesn't trust any RPC node, any oracle, or any DVN. It checks the math. Either the proof is valid or it isn't. This is exactly the model ZK rollups use to settle on Ethereum. The L1 doesn't ask an oracle "did these transactions happen?" It verifies a succinct proof that they did. โ–ถ The Goose That Lays the Golden Eggs One could argue the attacker showed restraint. With a 1-of-1 DVN, they could have minted any amount, $292 BILLION, if they wanted. There are liquidity arguments (you can only extract what lending markets will let you borrow against) and detection arguments (the larger the mint, the faster the response). But there's a more cynical reading. The Lazarus Group and similar state-sponsored actors are in a peculiar position. They could mint an amount large enough to collapse the entire DeFi ecosystem. But doing so would kill the very system they profit from. So they calibrate, enough to fund their operations, not so much that the ecosystem loses confidence and collapses. The goose must keep laying. The DeFi ecosystem likes to talk about trustlessness and decentralization. But when a handful of poisoned RPC servers can drain nine figures and trigger a systemic crisis, we should be honest about where we actually are, and serious about the cryptographic tools that can actually get us there. Stay safe.

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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
@0xQuit If you buy some lettuce, eat it, and nearly die from E. coli - is it your fault for not washing it first like you were advised to?
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Quit
Quit@0xQuitยท
Of all involved parties I actually think LZ is being treated the most unfairly. Yes they could have added additional safeguards but it's not like they had negligent security, they had very good security and were the target of a state sponsored and highly sophisticated attack. All KelpDAO had to do on the other hand was read the LayerZero docs before using it to secure their multi billion dollar protocol. All Aave had to do was look at KelpDAO's LayerZero config. Not saying all three aren't to blame (they all deserve a share) but that's how I see it.
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
A "bridge" is just a program that reads a number from a database and writes that same number to another. Trivial. The problem is the fear that turns a basic copy-a-number program into torturously complex decentralization theater. Fear of regulation + fear of accountability.
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zon ๐Ÿชข
zon ๐Ÿชข@ItsAlwaysZonnyยท
unfortunately i think it's still over for hyperlane, wormhole, and ccip do we expect any bridge provider to get a leg up after this?
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Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ
Sid ๐Ÿ“ฟ@sid_nirvana_fiยท
@raunit Yes. Narrow, and harden the choke point. The movement of tokens should be throttled, not the whole app.
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raunit
raunit@raunitยท
gist: dont put the circuit breaker in your program, put it in the token if your program authority gets compromised attacker skips your withdraw instruction and calls transfer directly every check you wrote is useless then put it at the token level with a Token-2022 transfer hook. hook isnโ€™t part of your program its the part of the mint catch: you have to wrap the underlying token to make it possible which is doable
Dhrumil@mmdhrumil

x.com/i/article/2046โ€ฆ

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