Clark T

@HPbasketball It won’t be talked about until after the year, but absolutely everyone should be terrified of the Pacers (especially if they keep their pick)

it's ok to respect other teams, you went to seven games with a team tht fired their gm and coach coming off a seven game series with a six man rotation with two injured players and the five seed and may have lost if not for an Achilles injury. You're awesome, best team in the land, everyone agrees. it's ok to respect other teams.

I dunno, did you also watch him get whatever he wanted down the stretch on Saturday? His high release along with his ability to hit shots off balance from just about anywhere uniquely allows him to get shots off over Wemby. Not many players have that combination. I would also point to his counting stats vs Wemby for his career. The Spurs have done better vs Denver than any other West playoff team? Spurs are 4-6 vs the nuggets since 23-24’. Thunder are 8-3 (12-6 including playoffs) over same time frame.

@ClarkT_14 @HPbasketball How is Jokic Wemby proof when Wemby and the Spurs have done better vs Denver the prior two seasons than any other West playoff team? Recall the end of season loss two yrs ago that cost Nuggets seeding when Wemby lit him/them up?

I think you have to like the matchup if you're San Antonio. OKC is the best team in the league and had a bunch of injuries for their matchups but no one has given OKC problems like San Antonio this year.

The reason I say Shai if all things are equal is I think he’s a killer. People don’t talk about it enough. Some guys just have it, and I think Shai has proven he’s one of them. It’s the same (only) argument for Jordan over LeBron if you’re trying to make it. At the highest level when the game gets tight, someone has to go out and get a bucket. Shai gets buckets. Ironically (but not insultingly) IMO Jokic isn’t even the best at that on his own team. Murray scares the shit out of me at the end of games (so does Kyrie among active players). I don’t think you can easily quantify that trait, but the point isn’t to be the best player it’s to win the game.

What I said wasn’t descriptive enough. Jokic has incredible playmaking ability. He creates the angles and makes passes no one else can/tries. He does MORE. Shai sees a double and hits cutter at the top of the key. Or he drives and kicks to the right person. It’s more reactive while Jokic anticipates. I’m saying Jokic is the better playmaker and it isn’t particularly close. As a matter of personal opinion, I want Shai. It’s absolutely biased. Game for my life, pick teams and I go first? Give me 2.

This is such a weak argument. The Thunder don't play that way because of Shai, they play that way because that's their team identity. Shai is their offensive engine. But I don't find his playmaking to truly elevate them all that much, as someone who literally watched all his assists recently. Good passer, has some real high points and is beter than last year. But it's just not the same, at alll. That's ok! He gets his MVP! But like, we can just know better.

@Carsobi My working theory is that we have a game of rock, paper, scissors in the west. Thunder stymie Jokic, Jokic is Wemby proof, and Wemby stonewalls the Thunder. How they end up 1, 2, and 3 could have a real impact on who makes it out alive.

Jokic's strength + touch combo has led to by far the most Wemby-proof offense of any player. Vs. Wemby, he averages 11.4 PPG on 71.4% FG off shots in the paint, outside the RA. Incredibly hard to take away those floaters + touch shots when he can power his way to good position.

@BReynolds200 @SamQuinnCBS I like the way you think

@ClarkT_14 @SamQuinnCBS OKC won’t intentionally lose the game but if they win their next 3 games they clinch the one seed and 100% rest guys against Denver

Really fascinating race brewing for the No. 3 seed in the West. San Antonio’s loss today gives OKC the breathing room to tank their upcoming Denver game to try to get the Nuggets out of their bracket… but Denver’s season finale is against San Antonio.

Wemby played on a minutes restriction and came off the bench to meet the games requirement. You think Jokic conveniently came back right before he ran out of games? Ant? What a coincidence these guys are all ending up right over the minimum game requirement! The point I was making is guys came back to meet the requirement. Personally, I don’t think they should have to make that choice and take on that risk.

@ClarkT_14 @Carsobi that’s just not true though. the guys who were going to make all-nba aren’t players who just sit out half the season for fun. wemby, jokic, shai, cade, ant, dmitch, luka, etc. are all guys who play as many games as they possibly can.

For all the panic about the 65-game rule (which I do think is a dumb rule), I think we're actually gonna have a remarkable number of guys narrowly reach eligibility Wemby, Jokic, Ant, Maxey, Kawhi and Booker are all on pace to play 65-67 games All-NBA teams may be just fine!

@SamQuinnCBS Counter argument: after seeing the blowback when he did that, he will never give that level of autonomy again

Also... HEAR ME OUT... I wonder if the Luka trade in a weird way makes Dumont a slightly more appealing owner to work for. If he trusts his GMs enough to let Nico do THAT then he'll probably stay out of your way and let you do what you want. Not all owners do.

My argument for Shai would be: (To this point) has led the Thunder to the 1 seed, wire-to-wire despite major availability issues across the roster Elite overall advanced metrics (leads most) Great counting stats/efficiency Broke a streak held by Wilt for 60 years Only candidate without any extended down periods, extremely consistent Absolute nails in the clutch, with multiple game winners Combination of stats, storylines, and moments. His candidacy is airtight and has no obvious holes, which I believe no other candidate can say.

Good: "I think precedent matters and historically scoring leaders on top-3 seeds have won MVP, so I think Luka should win. If Shai were to pass him in the final games, then it should be Shai." Bad: "Luka leads the league in scoring! Scoring leaders always win! Luka is MVP and anything else is copium!" Good: "Team success is the point of professional sports and SGA has more team success than anyone. Even if the Thunder lose the 1-seed, Shai's minutes and games played provide enough of an edge over Victor." Bad: "How is SGA not the MVP?! Any other argument is a ridiculous made-up media narrative." Good: "Wembanyama's impact is so great that what he does in admittedly fewer minutes outweighs everyone else and we should work towards valuing defense more in this award." Bad: "Oh so you don't care about defense?!?!?" Good: "Defense has historically not been a necessity for MVP qualification, and I feel adhering to precedent is more important than setting a better one." Bad: "Steve Nash won MVPs so Luka Doncic has to!" Good: "Luka Doncic has done the most on the floor of any of the candidates when it comes to production across categories and has a better record than his closest competitor in that facet, Nikola Jokic." Bad: "Luka's team sucks! Everyone else has superteams!" Just make good arguments.

@BrandonRahbar 6. Broke Wilt’s 20 pt streak

SGA’s MVP Case 1. Leading OKC to NBA’s best record despite JDub, Chet, Hartenstein, Dort, Caruso & Mitchell missing 150 games. 2. Rivaling Curry for most efficient 30 point season in NBA history. 3. One of the greatest clutch seasons in NBA history. 4. No weaknesses in his case. 5. Season long elite consistency. (@OKProtonCenter)

@SamQuinnCBS With Wemby’s ascension, being a neutral or negative defender might be a disqualification from the race for the foreseeable future.

Harden had similar stats to Luka now in 19 and 20. Giannis lapped him both years. Defense played a big part in Embiid beating Jokic in 2023. Those guys have absolutely had defense held against them in MVP races. They were just so undeniable in the years they won it didn't matter.

Being physical at the right times and in the right situations is a skill. The Thunder have perfected it and other teams come in hoping to match it without practice. They end up whining when they can reciprocate but in reality they aren’t good at it. I don’t expect Giannis to shoot like Steph when they play the Warriors.

Here’s how to fix the SGA officiating problem

I would go even further. He has no weak points statistically and he has strong narrative based arguments. They have maintained the one seed (to this point wire-to-wire) while constantly missing major rotation pieces/starters, he broke a streak held by Wilt, and he’s been nails in the clutch with multiple game winners.

One issue I have with over-indexing on March in the MVP race for Luka and/or Wemby is that November-December Jokic was even better, it just happened so long ago it doesn't get the recency bias bump. He averaged 31/12/11 on 61-47-85! This isn't a peaks race. It's a marathon. This is why my lean is SGA. I think Jokic was better early. I think you could argue Luka and Wemby have been better lately (though I don't treat that as a certainty). But wire-to-wire, the most consistently MVP-caliber player to me was SGA. It's not the same thing, but I do feel like certain people over-index on specific traits. You can care about defense without picking MVP solely on defense. You can care about metrics without picking MVP solely on metrics. You can care about winning without picking MVP solely on winning. There's been this aversion from certain pockets of the Luka/SGA camps to the idea that SGA has the most complete case because he doesn't stand out in as explicit ways, but in a race this good, the guy with no real vulnerabilities in his case should stand out.

Andy, I understand there is a sentiment they get away with all of this fouling and people hate watching it. My question is: why are they the only team (or one of only two or three teams) that get away with this? Personally, I believe they have mastered “situational physicality”. They play that way 48 minutes a game, 82 games a year. Other teams try to match it when they play them (ONLY when they play them) but they aren’t disciplined enough or talented enough to do this every game. It’s not Shai’s fault guys can’t stay in front of him without fouling. Should he not punish them? These teams try to beat the Thunder at their own game and it backfires BECAUSE they don’t play that way all the time. Rewatch the Pacers series from last year. They managed to match them physically and the refs let them. The Pistons play this way, and the refs let them. These teams have mastered a skill, and the discourse is to punish them because other teams aren’t capable of recreating it? It has never been easier to play offense, and conversely it’s never been harder to play defense. There are moving screens on every possession. Carries don’t exist. God forbid a team hangs their hat on their defense and fights back.

Thunder fans are understandably outraged by their team’s reputation, but it’s hard to imagine the Thunder’s long-term legacy being anything but this. Every time they’re on national TV, this is the discussion. Several opposing coaches have given their version of the rant below. OKC is very good. Probably going to win a second straight title. SGA is probably going to win a second straight MVP. But they are a truly difficult viewing experience.

@AndrewDBailey Why do they have to reduce game time or games played? Can they not space games out more?

I hate reducing the games from 48 minutes to 40* more than I hate reducing the season from 82 games to whatever (and I hate that a lot). The NBA could easily fit most 48-minute games into a two-hour broadcast window with some obvious tweaks. Start games on time, slash the number of team-called timeouts, send all reviews the replay center, where an off-site official has 30 seconds to make the call and cut halftime to 10 minutes. Most people aren’t in on this one, but the Elam ending would help too. *Going from 48 minutes to 40 has far too severe implications for league history.

@HPbasketball When he disproportionately gets credit in advanced statistics due to his position already, it matters.

Re: the Jokic assists video making the rounds. I would not throw stones if you're in another candidate's house. Doing video work yesterday and there were SO many fake assists for another candidate but I didn't post it because *every candidate benefits from scorer interpretation*