@malcolm_reavell So unless you want Britain to become a North Korea where everyone works for the public sector and there is no private economy, you absolutely need the markets
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Ed Finch
68 posts
@malcolm_reavell The government didn't bail out the banks in 2008 because it needed them per se, it was that it needed to maintain lines of credit for businesses and people in the economy and prevent mass repossessions and liquidations of businesses.
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The UK govt doesn’t borrow that of which it is the monopoly issuer. It first creates and spends money into existence. It then sells bonds to drain the excess reserves its prior spending created. Not a penny is ever “borrowed”. The markets need bonds. Govt doesn’t need markets.
Ryan Bourne@MrRBourne
There's an easy way to stop being "dominated" by the bond market: borrow less.
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@RichardJMurphy Oh and while some left wingers like to play to their crowd by pretending that by telling the bond markets to f*ck off they are flicking the Vs to corporate fatcats, the reality is often that they are telling all of our pension funds they can get to f*ck
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@RichardJMurphy They are pricing in the risk a more left wing leader would bring. Including Burnham who is effectively on record as saying as much as "f*ck the bond markets". Imagine what your reaction would be if you were owed £3 tr by someone who openly talked about telling you to f*ck off?
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UK gilt yields have hit an 18-year high. That's not because the economy collapsed. It's because bond markets fear Labour might elect a slightly more left-wing leader. When financial markets seek to constrain democratic choice, that is not economic discipline. It is political power, exercised without a ballot. cnbc.com/2026/05/13/gil…
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@malcolm_reavell but that is what they are doing. The fear in the markets is that if Starmer goes a nutter like Truss gets in that doesn't understand the environment they are operating in and goes full clusterf*ck
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@malcolm_reavell has been centred on keeping inflation under control in the face of a number of geopolitical pressures. Low public spending, high taxation and high levels of debt are removing excess money from the economy. They aren't being honest with the public about what they are doing
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No, Neil, you are the one displaying economic illiteracy of Trussian proportions. The UK govt creates and spends money into existence. It sells bonds to drain excess reserves its prior spending created. Not a penny is “borrowed”. The markets need bonds. Govt doesn’t need markets.
Andrew Neil@afneil
This is economic ignorance of a high degree, even for my old mate Diane. If you don’t want to be ‘dominated’ by the bond markets then don’t borrow £3 trillion from them. Be honest with the people and explain how your idea of socialism will entail EVERYBODY paying a shed load more in tax. If you can’t do that then you will be in hock to the bond markets. It’s as simple as that.
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@PnlChelsea @psmit47211920 @weezer316 @afneil Well the Tory party took the country even further to the dogs over the 14 years they had...
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@EdFinch424580 @psmit47211920 @weezer316 @afneil Well the people who cared were the ones who were arguing who was at fault for the debt. A conversation you and I joined. And while Labour's spending may have been higher than many would have recommended, the Tory party at that time weren't among 'the many.'
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This is economic ignorance of a high degree, even for my old mate Diane. If you don’t want to be ‘dominated’ by the bond markets then don’t borrow £3 trillion from them. Be honest with the people and explain how your idea of socialism will entail EVERYBODY paying a shed load more in tax. If you can’t do that then you will be in hock to the bond markets. It’s as simple as that.
Novara Media@novaramedia
"If the British government is going to be completely dominated by the bond market, MPs might as well go home." Diane Abbott told Cathy Newman on Sky News that whoever replaces Keir Starmer as prime minister must go through a "properly organised selection process", regardless of any "hissy fit" made by the bond markets. When this provoked laughter from Newman and eye rolling from former Conservative cabinet minister Gillian Keegan, @HackneyAbbott argued that there's no point in having a parliament if the financial sector always has the final word.
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@PnlChelsea @psmit47211920 @weezer316 @afneil while the cash was sloshing around. Passing of interest rate setting to the BoE. Remember the famous Brown declaration: "this is the end of Tory Boom and Bust"? Otherwise known as the end of government management of the economy. We have never recovered.
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@PnlChelsea @psmit47211920 @weezer316 @afneil businesses but on the flipside also had a duty to oversee the extent of sub prime lending and portfolio risks across banks books. Sub prime lending was actively encouraged by the government and securitisation of high risk loans was not adequately regulated - and nobody cared
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Ed Finch retweetledi
@paulmasonnews Greek Socialists didn't understand bond markets, although in fairness they did after the bond markets provided remedial training 🤣🤣
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@PnlChelsea @psmit47211920 @weezer316 @afneil Something happened just after 2007 that fundamentally changed everything. Can't for the life of me thing what it was. Also, don't take me for a Tory cheerleader. I won't be voting for either labour or tory after their record in govt over the last 30 odd years.
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@EdFinch424580 @psmit47211920 @weezer316 @afneil Did you hear the Tories saying Labour was spending too much? Osborne pledged to match Labour's public spending for 3 years back in 2007. Or has it been convenient for you to forget that?
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@RedDyke69 @afneil 6-7 years of governments essentially forced to borrow huge sums...
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@RedDyke69 @afneil 3% of GDP. By the time Labour left office in 2010 the deficit was c. 10% of GDP. This meant that the govt had to borrow 10% of GDP every year to cover the gap between public spending commitments and tax revenue. The deficit wasn't brought under control until 2017, so you had
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Indeed they did. Can you point to me those times Labour said to the tories — you’re borrowing too much. No. Thought not.
Wheeler MacIntyre@weezer316
@afneil They didn't. Tories borrowed about 2.3 trillion of that
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@psmit47211920 @weezer316 @afneil These same idiots also bang on about how awful Osborne's austerity measures were. The deficit was only closed to within managable levels in 2017, when thw European Commission closed their excessive deficit procedure against the UK (opened 2008)
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@psmit47211920 @weezer316 @afneil Always makes me laugh when people say Cameron and Osbourne massively increased the national debt - they inherited a situation where the difference in annual spending commitments verusus tax revenue was a deficit of 10% of GDP a year!!!
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