justin

@redeemed_zoomer Exactly right.

There is nothing that the Church Fathers unanimously agreed on that the Protestant Confessions do not also teach

@MitchellHe93733 Which everyone agrees with. Hence we all have to interpret it according to our systems. Again, Josh uses these types of posts generally to dunk on Protestants and it is silly to do that.

@HappyProt1517 Nobody is saying salvation is earned by works — but the judgment according to works is real.

Every mention of the Day of Judgment in Scripture says the verdict will be rendered based on our deeds.

@MitchellHe93733 Exactly, so we all have to interpret the fact we will be judged by our works. Josh usually uses these posts as a slam against Protestants as if we can’t handle those texts

@HappyProt1517 Nobody is saying that

@MethodMinistry Redemption accomplished yet not being applied is not an accomplished redemption.

The atonement of Christ made provision for everyone to be saved. It does not automatically apply it's benefits. Redemption Accomplished is not Redemption Applied.

@garrettham_esq lol that isn’t even close to what confessional Protestantism believes

Protestantism's deepest assumption is that Christianity went wrong almost immediately and stayed wrong for 1,500 years. That's not a small claim. It's the entire premise of the movement.

@ReformedToRome @StephenBoyce333 @HwsEleutheroi That Doesn’t justify lying via an AI generated meme.

@HappyProt1517 @StephenBoyce333 @HwsEleutheroi This is about pride refusing to admit one misspoke.

I will be responding to this graphic from @StephenBoyce333 on the Dividing Line, hopefully tomorrow. It is sad to see what has become of him. I assume he does this to soothe his conscience, to be honest. It is a common ploy of "converts." Sort of a way to show your commitment to your new religion. But, it is so desperately dishonest. He knows better. I have provided HOURS of refutation of this lie. But, anyway, Ignatius existed---the "standard" time frame and narrative may well be true, but, for those of us who actually take the faith into the battlefield against Unitarians and Mormons and JWs and Muslims, etc., honesty about the textual tradition behind our Ignatian corpus must be a priority. Doesn't really matter to Romanists...they abandoned history when they bowed the knee to Newman anyway. BTW, you can find those hours of programs by searching for "Ignatius" at aomin.org. Oh, btw, the big irony here is: Ignatius did not address a "bishop" (singular) at Rome because...there wasn't a monarchical episcopate there as yet. And now Boyce pretends to follow a man whose very office forces him (Boyce) to believe otherwise. Gotta love the irony.

@StephenBoyce333 @HwsEleutheroi The main point is he clearly articulated that he believes Ignatius exists…what does your graphic depict him as saying?

Yes, I listened to him afterward and responded. He refused to admit he misspoke during the debate and misrepresented the scholarly position on Ignatius, claiming it represented the “majority of scholars,” which it doesn’t, and saying he “hoped Ignatius existed.” There’s nothing dishonest here—just an unwillingness to admit a mistake in a debate. He created this mess by doubling down.

@StephenBoyce333 @HwsEleutheroi The AI generated meme really shows just how much you “still respect the years of work you have put into public debate”.

Dr. White, with respect, I think this response proves the point I was making. I raised a specific historical issue: your public comments regarding the historicity of Ignatius of Antioch. Rather than addressing that narrow subject directly, the discussion immediately moved into papacy, Marian dogmas, Honorius, infallibility, and a range of unrelated Roman Catholic controversies. Those are substantial topics, and each deserves serious treatment on its own terms. But they are not the issue I raised. My question was much simpler: were your statements about Ignatius and the historical evidence accurate? If so, defend them. If not, clarify them. I say that sincerely because you were an early influence on me in apologetics, and I still respect the years of work you have put into public debate. That is precisely why I was surprised by the comments. If you would ever like a focused and respectful exchange on Ignatius and the early second century evidence for the Bishop of Rome in his letter, I would welcome it.

@StephenBoyce333 @HwsEleutheroi Any chance you listened to James’ follow up comments after the debate that specifically addressed the claim that he denies Ignatius existed? Because honestly the graphic is so dishonest. Hard to take someone seriously who shares graphics like this

@HwsEleutheroi I’ll gladly discuss/debate this subject, and be happy to revisit your comment in the debate with you. It’s apparent you misspoke on the scholarship and refuse to accept that for some odd reason.

@Catholic_bro Calling it the flesh of our Savior does not mean it transubstantiates into a re-presentation of the sacrifice of Christ. Especially when refuting Docetics. Further, evangelicals don’t necessarily hold to an empty symbolic view of the supper.

St. Ignatius of Antioch called the Eucharist “the flesh of our Savior.” How do evangelicals (etc) reconcile that with a purely symbolic view?

@Dirizheer @IFFFMEISTER Again, drinking a bit of poison is different than chugging it. Which was the point of my response. I have a hunch if Augustine could see what would happen in the Middle Ages he would not be happy with it. That’s just based off my reading of Augustine.

@HappyProt1517 @IFFFMEISTER The original point does not matter then, if purgatory is a bad idea, Augustine held to bad ideas

Every protestant who claims Augustine didnt teach purgatory and saint intercession is deluding themselves. Every Catholic who thinks his views 100% match up to modern Rome is not serious

@AngAesthetics Fantastic work by Augustine. His high view of scripture to ground unity is phenomenal. And of course this quote is exceptionally useful as well :)

Once these snares of delays have been laid aside let him show that the Church should be preserved in Africa alone with so many other nations lost or that it should be repaired and fulfilled among all nations from Africa. Let him show this that he not say, “it is true because I say this or because my colleague has said this or some colleagues of mine or our bishops or clergy or laity or it is true for this reason that Donatus or Pontius or somebody else has performed these or those miracles or that men pray to the memory of our dead or that these or those facts are relevant here or that our brother or sister has had some vision while awake or has dreamed some vision while asleep.” Let these fictions of lying men or omens of treacherous spirits be removed. Or is it not true what is said, if some miracles of the heretics were performed we should be very cautious, because the Lord said that certain men would be deceitful who by performing some signs would deceive the elect, if that were possible. He adds vehemently, take note, I have told you beforehand (Mt 24:25). - Augustine, On the Unity of the Church

@Dirizheer @IFFFMEISTER Indeed we do, but the damage of an error can be more or less depending on how developed that error is. Ex. Drinking a glass of alcohol is far less harmful than drinking a bottle of liquor. Yet both are still technically drinking poison.

@HappyProt1517 @IFFFMEISTER Don't Protestants reject purgatory wholesale regardless of flavor and the specific formulation?

@JoshuaTCharles @IFFFMEISTER His idea of growth also included ecumenical councils being corrected :) “the authority of plenary Councils which are formed for the whole Christian world; and that even of the plenary Councils, the earlier are often corrected by those which follow them” Against the Don. Book 2

@HappyProt1517 @IFFFMEISTER St. Augustine himself spoke about this growth in understanding in the Church through time. He would not be surprised. eternalchristendom.com/becoming-catho…

@IFFFMEISTER If faith is wrought by the Spirit does that not mean the Spirit has already been given? It really seems with baptismal regeneration you could get stuck with a Spirit filled converted believer who has yet to have their sins forgiven until they eventually enter the font. Quite odd

@HappyProt1517 Regeneration is the washing away of sin and giving of the holy spirit. Conversion is faith in Christ wrought by the Spirit. Compare it Namaan. Namaan agreeing to be washed in the waters = conversion. Namaan doing it = baptism/regeneration.

The reformed baptist attack on infant baptism is uniquely suited for the presbyterian view. Baptismal regeneration takes care of that

@Xtopher_Uzo Although Christ is not dying repeatedly in the mass, he is repeatedly offered to re-propitiate the Father. The Mass is a never finished, never perfecting, insufficient sacrifice therefore it cannot be the same sacrifice of Calvary simply re-presented. youtu.be/eMyp5aZVQyc?si…

Are Catholics sacrificing Jesus again at every Mass? Catholics come and answer

@redeemed_zoomer This is exactly why I never have found Hahn compelling and frankly didn’t find his work “Home Sweet Rome” that much better.

This is what an invasion looks like